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Germany - What happens next?


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I suppose "coalition" is the word of the day..........but who, what, where, when & why?

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I think we had the choice between plague and cholera with this (preliminary) result:

 

Party...........Seats in the Bundestag

-----------------------------------------

SPD.......................222

CDU/CSU...............225

GRÜNE.....................51

FDP.........................61

Die Linke.................54

-----------------------------------------

Total seats:...........613

 

For the absolute majority you need 307 seats. Since all partys refuse a coalition with Die Linke. (which is a newly founded left-wing party) there are not many possibilities left.

 

SPD + CDU form a big coalition:

Both claim their differences are too big. In fact they are not, but their ideas differ in some critical points like labor contract and social/pension reform which is overdue. Since chancellor Schröder seems to have gone out of his mind, he doesn't want to leave his chancellors chair. Of course with the CDU as the bigger fraction Mrs. Merkel would certainly be chancellor (since the chancellor is elected by the Bundestag).

This is my preferred solution, not because it would be that good, but these idiots (my opinion) would have to talk to each other. Could help...maybe not. Slow decision process in the Bundestag would be the result (at least). :(

 

SPD + Grüne + FDP:

FDP would join the current government. Most unlikely. Extreme differences between SPD and the liberal FDP, and at least some between Grüne and FDP. The FDP stated that they want to stop the current government, not become a part of it.

 

CDU + FDP + Grüne:

Most likely I think. No doubt about CDU + FDP, but lots of problems to solve between Grüne + CDU, most of them having to do with either environment or military (and a bit economy perhaps). This would mean an iron lady for Deutschland!

 

Well, at least no party considers themselves as losers. According to TV interviews, everybody is a winner, so its a win win win win win situation, which is just great for germany! :lol:

 

 

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Well, at least no party considers themselves as losers. According to TV interviews, everybody is a winner, so its a win win win win win situation, which is just great for germany! :lol:

 

Yes! I saw a news clip earlier about this and everyone was smiling and cheering and I thought the exact same thing; at least no one feels the loser.

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Well, at least no party considers themselves as losers. According to TV interviews, everybody is a winner, so its a win win win win win situation, which is just great for germany! :lol:

 

 

The BBC reported it as " the losers (SDP) were celebrating, and the winners (CDU) were drowning there sorrows.

Politics huh??

 

The report here is that Mrs. Merkel is now falling out of favour with the CDU, how do the general public in Germany feel?

 

Thanks for the details Alexa, I can understand the dilema of the German politics now. Either one of the parties need 75/76 seats from other parties to make a coalition, which means two of the other parties, but would any three actually be able to form a government.

 

There is another solution.............have another vote.............ok ok just a thought :)

 

 

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It really is a shame that so many people voted for the PDS (left wing dorks)...

I think many unemployed people (especially in East Germany) voted for them, because the SPD/Grüne messed it up so bad and they think the PDS will improve the situation with their utopic political ideas...

 

Well, it's pretty sad so many people STILL believe what the SPD is promising after they did not realize half of the stuff they promised 7 years ago...alot of people seem to be easy to manipulate...how stupid :rolleyes:

 

Oh and how Mr. Schröder behaved after the election was done showed again that he is an idiot...

 

ps.:

I think we had the choice between plague and cholera

Everyone should realize that the CDU is way more competent than the SPD and the Grüne together ;)

But still people voted for them...as I said before, people are stupid...

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The report here is that Mrs. Merkel is now falling out of favour with the CDU, how do the general public in Germany feel?

I guess there are heavy power struggles going on inside the CDU (not only of course). Merkel will be bashed, no doubt about it, but what I heard is that she's strong enough to sit this out, which is probably the only way to deal with something like this..She must be strong enought because getting to where she is is quite tough. Yeah politics....

About the general public, well they voted, and you could say they voted against her. God knows why.

 

There is another solution.............have another vote.............ok ok just a thought :)

No really, lots of germans (including me) feel like that. But what then, do it over and over again until "we" like the result? As you may know, these were early elections. And why? Do you know the concept of Bundestag and Bundesrat in germany? Short, slightly inaccurate summary:

Bundesrat is the legislative. But since germany consists of "independend" states that chose to form the country together, each state has his own "government" (ok, federalism is well known in most countries). The misery: The representatives of the states make up the Bundesrat, which has the right to block about every law and decree which just scratches their sovereign territory. And that, sadly for germany, means nearly all laws. And the SPD lost in the last regional elections even the last of their supporting states to the CDU. So Bundesrat=CDU while Bundestag=SPD => deadlock. So a winning SPD still would have a problem.

 

It really is a shame that so many people voted for the PDS (left wing dorks)...

I think many unemployed people (especially in East Germany) voted for them, because the SPD/Grüne messed it up so bad and they think the PDS will improve the situation with their utopic political ideas...

Well, strange party this is, I agree. On the other hand, what they say and want is not bad, but as u called it: Utopic. We won't win the global race, we're not losing jobs because of the SPD or the CDU or Die Linke. I don't want the future for me and my (future) children to be 80 h working for the food, never knowing what happens tomorrow. Not so long ago I studied at the University, and met many and many Chinese. Their stories alone foreshadow a gruesome future for us, unless they get more social and not we less! Competition will never archive this (the market may regulate things, but it is never said HOW it does that).

Well, it's pretty sad so many people STILL believe what the SPD is promising after they did not realize half of the stuff they promised 7 years ago...alot of people seem to be easy to manipulate...how stupid :rolleyes:

 

Oh and how Mr. Schröder behaved after the election was done showed again that he is an idiot...

 

ps.:

 

Everyone should realize that the CDU is way more competent than the SPD and the Grüne together ;)

But still people voted for them...as I said before, people are stupid...

Well, I voted SPD. They made gross mistakes, no doubt. A tax law that just earned big companies billions of Euros, and they failed to reform the federalism in germany, biiiiig mistake. And by the way I never listened to what they said in public. Makes no sense to do this. You got to watch the second row politicians. And SPD as well as Grüne have some of the best politicians there. In the end, no big difference between them, no concepts, no ideas, ALL of them. Don't tell me the CDU is the solution. With CDU, it will be 20 more years for the nuclear power plants but apart from that? The big hit for the country? NOP!

 

Look to the countries which are less social than germany. Result? SLUMS! Richest countries in the world, and INSIDE of them people as poor as peeps in 4th world countries. You sure you'll allways count to the societies winners? Guess as an university graduate I'll be rather well paid, but I'll happily pay my higher taxes if this can prevent such things to happen in germany. And neither CDU nor SPD can fabricate jobs, thats true fact and unquestioned by the vast majority of experts.

 

Finally, Schröder is an idiot, ok. The CDU has quite a bunch of them, most of them are heads of states. Polemics, but nothing else. And you've got to admit one thing: Schröder behaved rude, but this is generally (not my opinion) seen as strength. And even in that strange TV discussion his opponents couldn't counter him. So talking about leadership skills....Sad, I know :(

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If any european country can have a successful coalition government, its Germany, but how far right & left is SPD & CDU, could they actually come to decisions in the budestag??

I couldn't see the Labour & Conservatives do it in UK !!

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deadlock

 

Or, as the French call it, cohabitation. :P

 

Stranger coalitions have happened. In Holland we had the 'purple coalition', between VVD (liberals, as in: right wing), PvdA (social democrats) and D'66 (small central party). Though that was preceded by years of contacts between the three parties in hotel Des Indes.

 

In Belgium they went even further than that with their 'rainbow coalition', which consisted of no less than six parties from across the political spectrum.

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Well, I voted SPD. They made gross mistakes, no doubt. A tax law that just earned big companies billions of Euros, and they failed to reform the federalism in germany, biiiiig mistake. And by the way I never listened to what they said in public. Makes no sense to do this. You got to watch the second row politicians. And SPD as well as Grüne have some of the best politicians there.

Sorry, but this makes no sense at all. IF they have some of the best second row politicians what did they do during the last 7 years? Crosword puzzles? :rolleyes:

 

With CDU, it will be 20 more years for the nuclear power plants but apart from that?

Yes! let's shut them down to make energy costs EVEN HIGHER! Come on you must be joking...

Germany's nuclear power plants are with the best of the world and as long as we don't have another energy source we have to use them in order to provide low energy costs for the people and for industry.

With this SPD and GRüne bullcrap about shutting them down you#re not helping the economy....duh! ;)

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Independent' date='Sep 20 2005, 03:51 AM' post='15056']

Wow, Alexa! I'm impressed! You're really plugged into what's going on. Thanks for the rundown.

Seems the older I get, the more I care. :lol: I say: "Make way you dorks, let me govern!".

And nice signature you got there, GD! ;)

 

If any european country can have a successful coalition government, its Germany, but how far right & left is SPD & CDU, could they actually come to decisions in the budestag??

I couldn't see the Labour & Conservatives do it in UK !!

Yes, we have a coalition tradition. Actually, in 1966, a CDU + SPD big coalition got germany out of the recession. I don't think you can measure these partys with the traditional left/right metric (think they are both close to the middle), though SPD is the labor party and CDU, well, "market oriented" and conservative. And there lie their main differences: Labor rights, general labor politics and tax laws. I think it's not so different from the UK's Labour/Conservative so plenty of problems ahead. On the other hand, mucho blahblah but what they did usually was what was "best" in some way or another for the country, apart from their manifesto, which is good. Egos are in the way, though.

 

 

Sonic Goo' date='Sep 20 2005, 12:54 PM' post='15075']

 

Stranger coalitions have happened. In Holland we had the 'purple coalition', between VVD (liberals, as in: right wing), PvdA (social democrats) and D'66 (small central party). Though that was preceded by years of contacts between the three parties in hotel Des Indes.

 

In Belgium they went even further than that with their 'rainbow coalition', which consisted of no less than six parties from across the political spectrum.

Hmm, you are right, it should be possible but don't forget: We're a big country, with an overcautious political system. Lots of distributed power around. Belgium is quite unique: Made up from Dutch, French and few Germans. Also its history is quite complex, so is their political system.

 

Sorry, but this makes no sense at all. IF they have some of the best second row politicians what did they do during the last 7 years? Crosword puzzles?

They did what all the others would have done too. They did what they can, and this is not much. General framework for economy won't result in jobs any more. Probably never did, but since the whole world economy was growing nobody realised. If Germany would do what other countries (which I will not name here) are doing right now, lowering taxes to a unfair niveau, a big and productive country could economically drain out his neighbours. What is won there? The costs would be more poverty here. As always, majority loses for the rich minority. Let's face it: politicians are doing their best patchworking, with lots of holes popping up all over the place. Don't think their job is too easy, otherwise I'd be a politian faster than u can say bribe. And some claim that about 70% of the powerful political forces operating in the background stay the same even when the government changes. Guess it's not untrue.

 

Yes! let's shut them down to make energy costs EVEN HIGHER! Come on you must be joking...

Germany's nuclear power plants are with the best of the world and as long as we don't have another energy source we have to use them in order to provide low energy costs for the people and for industry.

With this SPD and GRüne bullcrap about shutting them down you#re not helping the economy....duh! ;)

Higher costs are negligible compared to the value of Alexa's precious life! :lol:

 

No, honestly: My statement didn't imply any opinion about shutting down NPPs. I'm an electroinic engineer and well know the energy problems. I also think buying power from eastern countries with inferior NPPs can't be the solution to the problem. But one thing that the green party die Grünen says should make most sense for conservatives: if you don't force the people to face the coming energy problem, they will just ignore it. Uranium is not much longer available than oil! Some experts say it's 40 years till depletion. Some say 400. Let's say its quite a while, but eventually we need alternatives. And you gotta force them to think about it and put money into research. And with lotsa new industrial nations coming up, we'll have an energy problem even with oil and nuclear energy! So be prepared for clammy fingers while playing NOLF. :lol:

And remember: CDU dosn't want to build new NPPs, they just don't want the old ones to shut down so "early".

 

And a positiv thing about high petrol prices: local economy gets boosted, because driving wares around is much too expensive. Do you really think it's good that Berlin hotels drive their dirty laundry down to Poland, where labor is cheap? I think this is a perversion! Or that I can't buy a potatoe from a nearby farmer but can get lotsa indian red soil potatoes in Germany? I'm neither a communist nor a strong antiglobalist but some things are just not right (mmmhh, yummy red soil potatoes though, drool). Just think there should be help for the poor commuters.

 

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And remember: CDU dosn't want to build new NPPs, they just don't want the old ones to shut down so "early".

 

Now that's news...I know this, but those SPD and Grüne dorks really drive me nuts with their idiotic "let's shut them down adn screw up the economy even more".

 

And a positiv thing about high petrol prices: local economy gets boosted, because driving wares around is much too expensive

 

You just have to be kidding...

According to your statement we have to thank AIDS for helping us getting the problem of overpopulation under control :rolleyes:

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Caip, you systematically avoid answering the questions I brought up. What about the necessity of alternative energy sources? What about driving goods round the whole world while nearby economy lies idle? This is what costs jobs. And I'm very interested in economy so my conclusion is a reasonable one: if transportation is too expensive, you can buy cheaper locally, and this is done. If just in time with costs of petrol and highway toll is more expensive than stores, you can use them again etc...

 

And as someone who will have to work very close to the industry, I am a human being, the industry should care for me, not I for the industry. Totally my opinion. I don't say it should be impossible for individuals to get filthy rich, but there must be some sort of ethics included. As I said before, I met SEVERAL chinese (girls) and what they told me is more or less that you're the slave of the employer over there. 60 h weeks, low pay and finally, if they think you're not useful any more, you get kicked. Now would you answer my question: do you think that free market brings salvation for everyone? :P

 

Perhaps a nice story which you probably know about, Caip, but just to show a bit of CDUism here:

 

The SPD + Grüne government had to introduce a deposit for cans and disposable bottles. This was done very strangely. Deposit for some cans and bottles, dependent on the beverage and god know which other factors (e.g. not sparkling, medium sparkling, sparkling). This was and still is BS. Stupid government, isn't is? NO!

 

In 1991 or so, CDU government, the law demanding this was passed. The environment minister negotiated this law with the beverages lobby. And what did they do? Well, mineral water usually has a deposit rate of 100%, so all those bottles are recycling bottles. Whenever a recycling rate was lower than 72% in a beverages category, the industry was bound to introduce deposits for the bottles. But the industry is your friend, so what to do? Let's just forge BS categories for beverages so that e.g. by putting the different kind of mineral water bottles into them the recycling rate was below 72%, and the industry just had to do nothing. So it was done. Senseless, idiotic, yes I would even say criminal categories. And the ethics of the industry? In 2003 I think they managed to fall below the recycling rate, and the deposit had to be introduced.

 

Germanys reaction: bashing of the SPD + Grüne government for something the CDU caused, and wide lack of understanding in the nation. Think at least 50% of the germans still don't know this fact.

 

In my opinion, the CDU is WAY too close to the industry, and that is not going to be for the best of the people. Apart from that, Caip, the CDU also has lots of very good politicians, no doubt. But some of them left because of internal power struggles or just because of age. I repeat: neither SPD nor CDU will lead us into paradise.

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Caip, you systematically avoid answering the questions I brought up

Seems like I missed the part where you asked me something...oh...after re-reading this whole topic...you didn't :rolleyes: Thus I am not systematically avoiding the questions you brought up, duh!

 

What about the necessity of alternative energy sources?

Did I ever say we don't need them? We do, but shutting them down right now will damage our economy even more...

 

What about driving goods round the whole world while nearby economy lies idle? This is what costs jobs.

Producing here would cost more and thus the product would cost more and who wants that? Nobody!

Forcing comapies to produce in Germany will only make them move COMPLETELY to another country, but I doubt you thought of that while writing your post...

 

And I'm very interested in economy so my conclusion is a reasonable one: if transportation is too expensive, you can buy cheaper locally, and this is done.

...and with AIDS we will control the overpopulation problem. YAY!

This argument of you is so weak...

 

Now would you answer my question: do you think that free market brings salvation for everyone?

Free market economy only works in theory, so why bring it up here?

It makes no sense to discuss this, simply because a free market (economy) won't work...

 

In my opinion, the CDU is WAY too close to the industry, and that is not going to be for the best of the people. Apart from that, Caip, the CDU also has lots of very good politicians, no doubt. But some of them left because of internal power struggles or just because of age. I repeat: neither SPD nor CDU will lead us into paradise.

Germany needs the industry. No industry = no economy, no jobs, etc...

I personally give a damn about how friggin social the SPD and the Grüne pretend to be...they messed things up and created more and more unemployment. Social bullcrap doesn't help me to get a job...industry does.

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Seems like I missed the part where you asked me something...oh...after re-reading this whole topic...you didn't. Thus I am not systematically avoiding the questions you brought up, duh!

I made statements and brought up good questions. You always took one sentence from that statements and replied, but in my eyes avoided the questions. I didn't address you directly, true.

Did I ever say we don't need them? We do, but shutting them down right now will damage our economy even more...

Although I don't want to discuss the shut-down or not shut down of the NPPs:

Please accept the fact that people are as you say stupid. They won't see the necessity of investments if they don't have the feeling that something could go wrong RIGHT NOW. "If it's ten years away, we got plenty of time to deal with it". There is a solar power research center near the University of Stuttgart. Millions if not Billions of dollars went into it, 30 Years of research. The result: relatively good solar cells. Still not good enough, a waste in your eyes? What if the energy crisis expands? We got to FORCE these kinds of energy I say (well I and many others). Oil runs out. Uranium runs out. NOBODY knows exactly when, but it's not too far away. And I give a ZENSORED about the industry. Life comes first. Nothing is perfectly safe. One plant blowing up in Germany, and several states would be rendered uninhabitable.

Producing here would cost more and thus the product would cost more and who wants that? Nobody!

Forcing comapies to produce in Germany will only make them move COMPLETELY to another country, but I doubt you thought of that while writing your post...

The whole misery started when the industry went away because they could exploit workers in other countries better than they could exploit them here. And I guess the workers which lost their jobs here care about the product price. Dream on about a country of knowledge and services. Services are already also offshored, outsourced or whatever you call it. And engineering, my field, is about to go to. 100,000 engineers a year come from Chinese Universities (which by now may not be too good). Indian engineers are quite good, I can tell you. True is that nowadays there is hardly a thing that another country couldn't do also. Differences only exist in infrastructure and culture (Germans still are really committed).

 

As an example take the Korean car industry. Many american car companies laughed about them at first (help me out here american peeps, is that right?). Guess looking at their sales (even in the US) they don't feel like laughing any more. So what exactly is it that Germany has? Believe an engineer, its not engineering knowledge (we are VERY good, but only outstanding in several small fields).

 

And I am the industry. Investors earn money via products that I develop. Or the work the workers do. But we are talking about investors that can always get more and more in other countries. By now 20% yield is not enough. It's not that the companies which are losing the most jobs would be the poor ones with big losses! The opposite is true too often!

Trust me, I have a rather good economic understanding, but may be a bit too utopic. :P

...and with AIDS we will control the overpopulation problem. YAY!

This argument of you is so weak...

What I was saying is what is happening and that I think it's not soooo bad, nothing more. Thats economy, reality, not me dreaming or whishing. What is difficult to understand there? If something is cheaper than another thing, you switch over (idealised overall economic assumption). And Oil is getting more expensive. Not (only) the fault of our baddi baddi government. By the way I think there is in fact scientific research going on about your AIDS thought. Lots of people means lots of problems with deseases. Has nothing to do with what I first wrote, though, that's why I ignored it in the last post.

Free market economy only works in theory, so why bring it up here?

It makes no sense to discuss this, simply because a free market (economy) won't work...

Ok, I admit I'm walking on thin ice there, but we'll be closer to free market with CDU. At least with FDP, though. Nothing to be happy about. And not creating any jobs, mesays.

Germany needs the industry. No industry = no economy, no jobs, etc...

I personally give a damn about how friggin social the SPD and the Grüne pretend to be...they messed things up and created more and more unemployment. Social bullcrap doesn't help me to get a job...industry does.

Helping the industry, making them earn lots of money, being close friend with them doesn't create jobs. As I wrote before, experts agree that what a government can do is little to create jobs. Another country is 1% cheaper when it comes to taxes and off the industry goes. And then...go lower and lower and lower? Not possible in reality, even if you make your citizens poorer and poorer, pay less pension, make them work longer etc. And when we got 0% taxes for companies, the competiton of environmental pollution starts. The winner is the country with the acid rivers.

 

The SPD/Grüne aren't responsible for the unemployment and they cannot create jobs, as you pointed out correctly, the industry does. Which in fact was the big winner of the mistakes the gov. made (see that damn tax law).

 

And sad that you can't even criticise the unlimited power of the capital any more, since that annoys the capital which has unlimited power. :huh:

 

 

Perhaps for better understanding, before u start thinking I'm Mrs. Karl Marx:

I do not think that globalisation is bad. The opposite is true. But there have to be some rules. No workplace safety, degrading conditions of work, child labor, work for food, enslavement, pollution is something that no reasonable country can compete with. Moving production facilities in these countries is in my opinion a crime. Most of these countries are poor, their chance is the industrie. Great that they get factories and jobs, making their situation better than it is now (partly not true for some farmers which try their luck in the big, new-rich cities!). Too often the peoples situation doesn't get better, they don't have more than before, but are dependent on the factory and no longer on the harvest. Nothing won there.

My solution: self containment should be the first goal of these nations. They deserve to grow richer and have strong and stable economies.

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Alexa, I have but one question for you. Do you believe it's possible for the rich countries and the poor countries both to experience economical growth at once? More jobs, lower prices, financial commentators cheering on TV? Will, as the third world got stuck with the bill when industrial revolution and prosperity bloomed in Europe and America, us westerners and northerners have to finance an economic boom in poor countries today with declining economies of our own? Think about it...

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The supporters of globalisation were telling us it would be a win win situation. In fact they still do.

 

I can't say to what extend the third world got stuck with the bill during our industrial revolution. I think we didn't keep them down in general, deliberately.

 

Well of course you're right that our economys will have to finance the economic boom of the economically emerging countries. I don't even say it's a bad thing but it should be at least partially fair! And in the end the citizens of these countries should be the winners, ALL citizens as it (and I speak for Germany here) is in our countries. The current situation for 100 years will just kill us, to be frank. Some day, when their economy is strong and they got well-paid workers and a huge domestic market, they will be a benefit for us too.

 

And to get this partially back on topic: no party, may it be strong, clever, social etc. can do anything about it. At least not alone, without the support from other countries.

 

And Spacko, my perhaps-soon-to-be-in-the-european-union friend :lol: :

The EU was founded to do exactly this, get richer and poorer countries together in a fair and human way (that's what they say, at least :)).

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If every country would have a strong economy (which includes industry) it wouldn't help us at all...

Just think about the environmental damage if there would be inudstry everywhere in Africa.

It's just not possible.

 

Although I don't want to discuss the shut-down or not shut down of the NPPs:

Please accept the fact that people are as you say stupid. They won't see the necessity of investments if they don't have the feeling that something could go wrong RIGHT NOW. "If it's ten years away, we got plenty of time to deal with it". There is a solar power research center near the University of Stuttgart. Millions if not Billions of dollars went into it, 30 Years of research. The result: relatively good solar cells. Still not good enough, a waste in your eyes? What if the energy crisis expands? We got to FORCE these kinds of energy I say (well I and many others). Oil runs out. Uranium runs out. NOBODY knows exactly when, but it's not too far away. And I give a ZENSORED about the industry. Life comes first. Nothing is perfectly safe. One plant blowing up in Germany, and several states would be rendered uninhabitable.

You are ridiculous...did I ever say we DON'T need new sources of energy? I didn't.

But as long as we don't have a new source of energy which proivdes us with the same amount of energy for the same price (or cheaper) we have to keep the nuclear power plants running.

 

And if you say you don't care about the industry there's no need to discuss anything regarding politics with you any further...

 

By the way I think there is in fact scientific research going on about your AIDS thought. Lots of people means lots of problems with deseases. Has nothing to do with what I first wrote, though, that's why I ignored it in the last post.

You didn't get it at all :rolleyes: Saying "high petrol prices are good because they boost something else" is like "AIDS and cancer are good because they help us to prevent overpopulation"...it just doesn't work as an argument...

 

Ok, I admit I'm walking on thin ice there, but we'll be closer to free market with CDU. At least with FDP, though. Nothing to be happy about. And not creating any jobs, mesays.

But your SPD bullcrap will, right? Like they did during the last 7 years :rolleyes:

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Awright, I give up. Just one last post to clarify:

If every country would have a strong economy (which includes industry) it wouldn't help us at all...

Just think about the environmental damage if there would be inudstry everywhere in Africa.

It's just not possible.

We all know these problems, Caip. But there are roughly 2 Billion peeps at the brink of real industrial dawn, it will happen. I say we got to find the BEST possible solution. Our problems at the moment are not the pollution and by now also not the short resources but our companies exploiting these countries and downsizing at home.

You are ridiculous...did I ever say we DON'T need new sources of energy? I didn't.

But as long as we don't have a new source of energy which proivdes us with the same amount of energy for the same price (or cheaper) we have to keep the nuclear power plants running.

You got NO idea how little money goes into the research. Putting pressure on the peeps is the only way of getting things going. The funny thing is I don't disagree with you here. Can't say any more.

 

Oh, found one more thing: in 1999, there was an accident in an Japanese reprocessing plant. Cost about 120 lives of technicians which sacrificed their lives to prevent worse. I don't consider Japan to be the low-tech careless country in which such things are bound to happen.

And if you say you don't care about the industry there's no need to discuss anything regarding politics with you any further...

We weren't anyway. You say the government is responsible for the "bad" economy. I say it can do little for the economy.

That's how I came to the claim that the changing world is the true reason for our problems. And the fact that I'm working in R&D should give you a hint that I do care for the industry. Told ya I am part of the industry.

You didn't get it at all. Saying "high petrol prices are good because they boost something else" is like "AIDS and cancer are good because they help us to prevent overpopulation"...it just doesn't work as an argument...

Not saying they are GOOD, but saying one thing goes down, another thing goes up (think I said: a positive thing about them...). And I still find it ridiculous that I can buy cheap products from a near-starving farmer in some 3rd world country while buying from a local farmer here is more expensive. The money the farmer doesn't earn over there goes partly into the transportation costs and partly into the profit of some company. One job won in the company because of the profit, 10 lost by a competitor.

But your SPD bullcrap will, right? Like they did during the last 7 years

Wish it was my SPD. It's worth quite some millions. They did things right, they did things wrong. They are responsible for hard cuts in labor rights and presented the industry with huge tax reliefs. They started the neccessary reforms which the CDU didn't dare to do. I don't like the reforms but I know some of them are needed. And no, for the last time: SPD won't create any jobs, no party can. Oh wait, perhaps they will. Heard some seats will be free within the next 30 days. :lol:

 

Let's conclude:

  • You think the government is mainly responsible for the economy.
  • I think the government is more or less helpless, creating general conditions which can attract or repel companies in a very small extent.
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You are not right there, RXS.

 

This is in fact part of the campaign of the Genghis Khan party, with their chancellor candidate Genghis Khan. They propose to make Moscow the German capital and to "absorb the smoking remains of your shabby country". In my opinion, some of their ideas are pretty good, since Ghengis has a lot of experience in the steppe. Some facts about him:

  • Most successful conqueror in worlds history
  • Experience in uniting mongol tribes
  • 60 years experience leading a steppe empire
  • Massacres the traitors and the useless
  • Once was head of whole EU
  • Hates luxury
  • Fear of spiders
  • Good politician (shot his own brother in the back)
  • Trendy mustache
In a TV debate, he answered the question about the struggles of small business owners with German labor law:

 

"The greatest happiness is to scatter your enemy, to drive him before

you, to see his cities reduced to ashes, to see those who love him

shrouded in tears, and to gather in your bosom his wives and

daughters. "

 

After his party missed the minimal percentage of votes needed for a seat in the Bundestag, he retreated into his tent. His spokesman said: "Mr. Khan is not disappointed about the result, he is proud to have taken part in the democratical process. He will now concentrate on what he does best, pillage, plunder and storm."

 

I didn't vote for him because he may have been leader of the second largest empire in world's history, but I'm pretty sure he would have failed at the Bundesrat.

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Goo I heard you talking about cohabitation...

 

That's different.

In france we have a real president and a prime minister who leads the Assemble nationale.

So If the president is a right man and the prime minister is a left dude There is a cohabitation. That s way different than German system ;)

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