Marshall Law

[Eliteone]

Actually alot of these National Guard Troops have done at least one tour of duty in Iraq so I wouldn't call them all Green Rookies.

[RXS]

Hmm...still don't see the same one you posted.

[[FF5]Knix]

Report: Police shoot gunmen

Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on contractors crossing a bridge to make levee repairs, The Associated Press reported.

 

Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley told AP that police shot at eight people who had guns, killing five or six.

 

The Army Corps of Engineers told AP that 14 contractors escorted by police were fired upon while crossing the Danziger Bridge, which spans a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.

 

Corps spokesman John Hall told AP the contractors were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help fix a breech in the 17th Street Canal.

 

Initial AP reports had wrongly indicated that the contractors themselves were shot by police; no other details were immediately available.

 

 

I wish the cops would have tried to talk to these gunmen, instead of shooting first. Maybe a firm warning with a wave of the index finger for emphasis! All this shooting will do is cause people to be more hostile. We want to "tone down" the hostility no increase it. So a contractor gets shot for doing their job! There are always more contractors!

 

This goo-boy is why I find it laughable when you ask me how it feels to always be wrong. Keep standing on your "progressive" principles. We will promise to wave when we pass you by.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[daybreak]

Knix, you're making it seem like every single liberal is a complete and utter pacifist bent on eliminating all forms of violence everywhere whether justified or otherwise. Don't turn Goo's thought process into some black and white, childish rant devoid of an understanding of complexity. Progressives 'understand' what has to be done at times...Hell even Nader would've bombed Afghanistan! We get it alright! You make it sound like you celebrate violence while giving people like Goo the finger, that's pretty sickening in my book.

[[FF5]Knix]

Depends on when the violence takes place and in which context. Giving Goo the finger is just gravy .

 

 

[Genesis]

The Army Corps of Engineers told AP that 14 contractors escorted by police were fired upon while crossing the Danziger Bridge, which spans a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.

 

These people got what they deserved and neither Goo nor I ever said that policemen or army forces should talk to people who shoot at them instead of shooting back. I even said that this was completely normal, and both of us just expressed doubts in which concerns looters and other people who don't have an obviously agressive attitude. Now yes, if a policeman trying to arrest a looter gets shot at, I would not complain if the looter got killed. I think Goo will agree with this, and I don't understand what this kind of quote has to do with this topic, except that it's another occasion for you to tell the world how much you despise our opinions.

[[FF5]Knix]

These people got what they deserved and neither Goo nor I ever said that policemen or army forces should talk to people who shoot at them instead of shooting back. I even said that this was completely normal, and both of us just expressed doubts in which concerns looters and other people who don't have an obviously agressive attitude. Now yes, if a policeman trying to arrest a looter gets shot at, I would not complain if the looter got killed. I think Goo will agree with this, and I don't understand what this kind of quote has to do with this topic, except that it's another occasion for you to tell the world how much you despise our opinions.

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Being right provides its own opportunities .

 

 

[RXS]

and I don't understand what this kind of quote has to do with this topic, except that it's another occasion for you to tell the world how much you despise our opinions.

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OMG! Do you realize how pathetic that sounds?

[Death in a Box]

If marshall law says you will be shot for looting, and you loot, and get shot, who's fault is that?

 

And whoever said that the police/army/whoever should talk to whoever's shooting them first, that's just crazy. When people go to war, should they yell "Please don't shoot! We don't wanna be shot at! Think of all your other options!" and such to the enemy? I think not. If someone shoots at army/contracters/whatever they are most definetly not wanting to chat.

[daybreak]

This goo-boy is why I find it laughable when you ask me how it feels to always be wrong. Keep standing on your "progressive" principles. We will promise to wave when we pass you by.

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Depends on when the violence takes place and in which context. Giving Goo the finger is just gravy .

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Being right provides its own opportunities .

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OMG! Do you realize how pathetic that sounds?

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These are the last four nails in the coffin that is this discussion...If you'll notice, this debate is not about a natural disaster or the complexities of human behavior, it's about us. It's not a discussion of right or wrong it's a discussion of values. I'd consider myself tenacious and/or stubborn in the realm of debate but these last few comments have been patronizing and mean. How are we supposed to take you seriously in the future?

 

[RXS]

these last few comments have been patronizing and mean.  How are we supposed to take you seriously in the future?

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C'mon, that's not fair and balanced. It goes both ways single white male. Posting only quotes from Knix (when Goo was hurling insults over the fence too) shows your obvious bias and willingness to rush to Goo's aid - how are we supposed to take you seriously in the future? It's silly to pick a few posts from Knix and and act like he is the sole party in mud slinging.

 

I think we are all big boys and girls and have learned that if you dish it out you have to be ready to take it too.

 

Next time, before you rush to Goo's aid, you might want to read through the forums to see that both sides are involved - it takes two to tango.

 

EDIT: Sister removed and replaced with single white male

[daybreak]

Sorry but those lines don't sound particularly inflammatory or insulting to me. Plus, they were in the confines of the actual debate, not cryptic, smart-mouthed, single line responses...and don't call me sister, please, I'm not a woman, nor am I your sister.

[Eliteone]

[Genesis]

I'm sorry, RXS, to tell you that your own reply did have a pathetic aspect. Since when has expressing one's opinion become "pathetic"? Having nothing to reply is really annoying, I guess, but that's no reason to get this low. Knixie took an example that simply doesn't fit with what we've talked about earlier, both of you stopped "debating" a while ago in order to focus on the "STFU you liberals". Now, adding personal insults to the mix is your thing, not ours. And no-one comes to Goo's rescue, I think he can handle this on his own. Now it's about time we'd all chill down a bit.

 

If marshall law says you will be shot for looting, and you loot, and get shot, who's fault is that?

 

And whoever said that the police/army/whoever should talk to whoever's shooting them first, that's just crazy. When people go to war, should they yell "Please don't shoot! We don't wanna be shot at! Think of all your other options!" and such to the enemy? I think not. If someone shoots at army/contracters/whatever they are most definetly not wanting to chat.

 

Thanks, DiaB, that's exactly what I meant. The only problem is that no-one ever said that police/army/whoever should talk to whoever's shooting them, but eh, who cares, were're just sick liberals anyway.

 

So, here's what we really think, just to clarify things a bit:

 

- The solution to all the problems in N.O. is passing out hugs. We never said that the police was used to doing a job that involves peacekeeping and sometimes shooting other people, of course not, in Europe policement spend their time passing out hugs. In Europe, policemen chase murderers with a megaphone and try to convince them to stop and try the group hug thingy. They never have to shoot at anyone. We come from countries that don't know what emergency situations or urban violence are, it's an abstract concept, here. So, as soon as someone mentions anything that involves violence, we go crazy. We think that, according to the american law saying that people in N.O. have the right to bear firearms, shooting at these innocent civilians who just try to have fun is bad.

 

Please read these few quotes, you'll get the picture :

 

Goo: "how about the way hoodlums are normally handled?" - He meant hugging them, of course, not arresting them and using force if they resist, well you know, the way policemen usually do.

 

Goo: "I'd advocate getting the police system back on its feet - it seems to have completely desintegrated in NO. If you'd want to use the National Guard per se - use them for that - assisting the police in their work, setting up communications, giving them the means to go out, patrol and help people, giving them some manpower to back them up, etc. etc." - Now again, when he writes "police system", Goo means the kind of system that's based on massive hugs, not the normal police job that involves shooting people who shoot at you sometimes.

 

Gen: "The normal law already allows policemen to defend themselves if they're shot at. No need for the Marshall law under these particular circumstances." - "normal law" is, in this particular case, a secret code for "passing out hugs", it has nothing to deal with regular police stuff like shooting armed and menacing people, as one could think.

 

Daybreak: "I'm wondering if you've since changed any of your views from your initial post about shooting people on site who are 'looting' other items besides food..." - In this sentence, Daybreak didn't wanna talk about looters, of course, which was the original subject of this thread. No, he wanted to say "people who shoot at cops, civilians, or US Army engineers", please excuse him.

 

Daybreak: "Now, looting and attempting to harm or kill someone are completely different things, and thus far haven't exactly been differentiated. I understand the job that must be done in order to keep the peace, but I am not thrilled about opening fire on anyone for any reason (translation: hugs for all)." - Now, as you can see, instead of trying to tell the difference between looters and wannabe-murderers, we do propose our now-classic solution: hugs. No no, that was not humour, Daybreak really means it, of course.

 

Gen: "These people got what they deserved..." - SORRY! I misread Knixie's post, at first sight I thought these people got a group hug. They got SHOT? Well, ain't it sad to see that people in N.O. can't shoot police forces or engineers without being shot in return... Disgusting, we liberals will definitely never get it.

[RXS]

You three's collective stance has been changing since the beginning of this post. At first you were against shooting anyone for any reason (as daybreak mentioned...it makes his eyes go buggy)...now, you make posts saying it's ok to shoot hoodlums, but not looters...this is an obvious evolution of your opinion.

 

 

Just currious how Knix's example did not fit what we have been talking about? We have hoodlums shooting at police and engineers who are attempting to render aid, we have shots being fired, we have police groups making no effort to ask questions first, we have dead hoodlums. Hmm...seems like we we've been talking about just those things...are you trying to discredit it because it proves you were wrong earlier (before you started to transition - note that to support your argument you attacked the age and the ability of the troops to do this effectively...you even gave some crazy example of how your friend was pulled over by a cop with a drawn gun in his face - I wonder what the other side of the story was, but I digress). It's also of merit to note that you guys said (I believe it was Goo specifically) that if these hoodlums were shot and killed it would escalate because they have "kin" that would come to avenge their death and that, again as Goo put it, we would have a war on our hands. Well, it's nearly over, and it hasn't happened so far.

 

 

 

QUOTE(DiaB)

If marshall law says you will be shot for looting, and you loot, and get shot, who's fault is that?

 

And whoever said that the police/army/whoever should talk to whoever's shooting them first, that's just crazy. When people go to war, should they yell "Please don't shoot! We don't wanna be shot at! Think of all your other options!" and such to the enemy? I think not. If someone shoots at army/contracters/whatever they are most definetly not wanting to chat.

 

QUOTE(Gen)

Thanks, DiaB, that's exactly what I meant. The only problem is that no-one ever said that police/army/whoever should talk to whoever's shooting them, but eh, who cares, were're just sick liberals anyway.

 

Um, actually you did...and it is implied in several other posts.

(QUOTE Goo)It's exactly the kind of triggerhappy, aggressive, no questions asked attitude that's causing this kind of thing.

 

 

GEN:

Now, adding personal insults to the mix is your thing, not ours.

yepp...not your thing...here's just a couple of several out there

 

If you think justice is the same as shoot first, ask questions later, you really need to go back to school.

 

And, yes, people who advocate that sort of thing are sick

[RXS]

I mean we'll spontaneously see negative images when thinking of the US facing violence. That's because a big part of the american culture (and history, of course) is based upon violence, like it or not.

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Right, and Europe's history is not plagued with one war after another...Europe has not been the site and instigator of the two greatest wars in the 20th century...

 

Remeber all the soccer fights where pandamonium breaks out and hundreds are trampled, beat up, etc?

 

Yeah, Europe is the hallmark for peace. America pales in comparison to Europes violent past.

[Genesis]

Let's say we've learned lessons from the past... I see that now you even attack people you don't know, just for the pleasure of being sarcastic, saying that my friend might have what, transported cocaine? Exceeded the speed limit by more than 5mph? Is a bad guy and surely deserved being aimed at by a young cop? Ah yeah, if I remember well, he's a musician and he's liberal. Urgh, he even wrote songs about passing out hugs...

 

Well, now ain't it fun to read the "insults" you quote. For example when you pull outta the drawer the "sick people" thingy, you forget to mention that you asked me if I were sick myself only one or two posts above Goo's.

 

I like you guys, but I guess trying to debate with you is absolutely pointless. Now savour your well-earned victory, there are only Daybreak and Goo left. As far as I'm concerned, I'll stay away from any discussion involving err, anything, with both of you.

[RXS]

Let's say we've learned lessons from the past...

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Really, so what is this Serb / Croatia / Muslim thing I keep hearing about? What happened to Yugoslavia...home of the famous Yugo?

[[FF5]Knix]

Remeber all the soccer fights where pandamonium breaks out and hundreds are trampled, beat up, etc?

 

Yeah, Europe is the hallmark for peace. America pales in comparison to Europes violent past.

 

Thank you Rocks for posting this. I was going to bring it up, but you beat me to it (you bastard ).

 

The fight between the fans in Liverpool and Juventus in '85 in Belgium I think started out as a friendly game of tag, and just got worse from there.

 

My point ONCE AGAIN, Genesis, Daybreak, Mother Theresa, Ralph Nader, ACLU members in attendence, etc....

 

Is that goo has a HARD ON (full expectations of this to be modified) in pissing on the US and the American way of life. Do I think that he is ALWAYS wrong? No of course not, Goo is well educated, and as the saying goes the sun shines on every dogs 'donkey' once in a while . My problem is that he tries to over intelectualize the problem then becomes condescending (i.e. you should go back to school RXS, Message to looters, hide televisions in diaper bags, etc, etc). And then he is agast is shock when we give it back in return. Neither Genesis or Daybreak or whomever has the same biased track record through all the forums in this community over the past couple of years as goo does. We basically chased him out of the ST forum for pissing us off with his bias.

 

Bottom line, as I have mentioned in the past, genesis, daybreak, et al has some measure of respect looking at both sides of the issue. Goo see's a topic involving the US (or steers it thatway), gets arroused, starts drooling at the mouth, and comes looking to start shite. I am more then willing to reply in turn.

 

So when two conservatives get appointed to the Supreme court , I will laugh at the thought of Harald tossing darts in anger at the US Flag hanging inside his room.

[Genesis]

Sorry for posting just this, but I edited my post above while you guys were posting. Just for you to read it if you wish.

[RXS]

Let's say we've learned lessons from the past... I see that now you even attack people you don't know, just for the pleasure of being sarcastic, saying that my friend might have what, transported cocaine? Exceeded the speed limit by more than 5mph? Is a bad guy and surely deserved being aimed at by a young cop? Ah yeah, if I remember well, he's a musician and he's liberal. Urgh, he even wrote songs about passing out hugs...

 

Well, now ain't it fun to read the "insults" you quote. For example when you pull outta the drawer the "sick people" thingy, you forget to mention that you asked me if I were sick myself only one or two posts above Goo's.

 

I like you guys, but I guess trying to debate with you is absolutely pointless. Now savour your well-earned victory, there are only Daybreak and Goo left. As far as I'm concerned, I'll stay away from any discussion involving err, anything, with both of you.

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Ahh, come on back...it's just a bruised ego...nothing life threatening.

 

I've been pulled over a bunch of times for speeding and the funny thing is, never have I had a gun put in my face. I've been with lots of people who have been pulled over, and not once did they have a gun put in their face. I've seen other people pulled over on the side of the road, and have not seen guns pulled or put in their face. I have seen media clips where guns have been pulled and there was always a reason for it. Cops are trained not to pull a gun from their holster unless they intend to use it. My point is, I suspect your friend may have done something that made the cop nervous, maybe he fit the description of trouble...who knows...

 

Let me apologize for saying you were sick when you made your sarcastic comment of Nuking the area was my solution to the problem. I took your words at face value and did not see when I first read it that you were speaking metaphorically. Please accept my humble apologies for misunderstanding you and calling you sick.

[[TNT] Sonic Goo]

Fortunately, lives are being saved by people not taking RXS's original advice:

 

He made it several miles west, toward downtown and higher ground, then watched police stop at gunpoint a Ryder van that had been hot-wired by thieves. The officers told the men inside that they had to stop looting and must try to get people out of the neighborhoods, that people were dying.

 

"Believe it or not, those dudes got the message," Williams said.

 

The thieves began ferrying people out of the devastated neighborhoods to the east. The police had deputized looters.

 

I think they deserve a hug.

[RXS]

Sonic Goo,Sep 5 2005, 11:12 AM]Fortunately, lives are being saved by people not taking RXS's original advice:

I think they deserve a hug. 

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They sure do. Isn't it reassuring to know that these "trigger happy, wanting to gun down anything that moves" Nat'l Guard/Police officers have the training and/or experience to make a judgement call? Thumbs up to our boys!

 

 

Fortuneately, innocent lives are being saved by people taking RXS's original advice...see Knix's post above yours.

[Genesis]

Ahh, come on back...it's just a bruised ego...nothing life threatening.

 

I've been pulled over a bunch of times for speeding and the funny thing is, never have I had a gun put in my face. I've been with lots of people who have been pulled over, and not once did they have a gun put in their face. I've seen other people pulled over on the side of the road, and have not seen guns pulled or put in their face. I have seen media clips where guns have been pulled and there was always a reason for it. Cops are trained not to pull a gun from their holster unless they intend to use it. My point is, I suspect your friend may have done something that made the cop nervous, maybe he fit the description of trouble...who knows...

 

Let me apologize for saying you were sick when you made your sarcastic comment of Nuking the area was my solution to the problem. I took your words at face value and did not see when I first read it that you were speaking metaphorically. Please accept my humble apologies for misunderstanding you and calling you sick.

 

Yeah, you may be right about my friend, RXS. I know Ron is a cool guy and would never have done anything to make this poor young cop nervous, but well, it's L.A. and yes, he might have fit the desciption of a wanted person.

 

Thanks for your apologies, accept mine in return for having over-reacted to both Knix's comments and yours.

 

BTW, Goo's story is cool and shows that yes, these soldiers are obviously able, even in these times of trouble, to make a clear judgement. Props to them. I hope we'll read more stories like this one in the next days, instead of reports of dumb people shooting engineers.

[[TNT] Sonic Goo]

RXS: what does KNIX's obsession with my penis have to do with rescueing people?

 

(btw - wrt to that post: as soon as you elect a decent president, I'll be here saying how decent he is.)