Eliteone Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Our hearts and prayers go out to all the victims and families of Hurricane Katrina ! If you would like to help the relief efforts , please make a donation to The American Red Cross. American Red Cross You can also call 1 - 800 - 435-7669 Help Hurricane Katrina Victims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Do we know any nolfers near there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 You know, I always find it interesting how the US rallies their efforts to help victims of natural disasters both domestic and abroad. Yet when it happens in the US, the world suddenly grows silent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliteone Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 You know, I always find it interesting how the US rallies their efforts to help victims of natural disasters both domestic and abroad. Yet when it happens in the US, the world suddenly grows silent. 13903[/snapback] I've heard alot of discussion on that on talk radio today alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 You know, I always find it interesting how the US rallies their efforts to help victims of natural disasters both domestic and abroad. Yet when it happens in the US, the world suddenly grows silent. 13903[/snapback] Firstly, of course, I checked if this was true and the first thing I found was this: From papal prayers to telegrams from China, the world reacted with an outpouring of compassion Even Hugo Chavez, not exactly a friend of the US, offered large amounts of help. If there was any lack of outcry, I'd say it's because: - the confirmed death toll for this is still very low (about 1000, higher numbers usually come with a qualification like 'believe it could rise to') - less than a year ago we had a disaster with about 150 times more dead than the estimate for this one - earlier this week we had a disaster, causing a number of dead approx. equal to the current Katrina estimate, in Iraq - in Europe large parts are flooded (or on fire) as well, no one's too bothered about that either, makes it hard to see what the big deal is elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliteone Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 Be it Tsunami last December, hurricane Katrina This week. Everyone should give what they are able to help to a organiation such as the Red Cross for example, regardless of national boundries and the ethinticity of the victims. We are all human afterall. I donated for the Tsunami relief and I've already sent a donation for Katrina victims. I do this because it is the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caip Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I agree! Sadly I really don't have money to give right now But what astonishes me is, that the US was really quick in sending help to the other side of the world (Tsunami last year), spends millions of dollars for anti-terrorist stuff, is the biggest and richest nation of the world, but doesn't manage to help the people in their own country properly...People suffer and die there, why are they so slow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Actually, as discussed elswhere here, the US wasn't that fast with tsunami aid. And, to make things clear, I was just trying to think of reasons why people could possibly feel less caring about this, as RXS - probably unjustly, see links above - claimed. I've noticed the lack of help as well. Some journalists reported that they were amazed that the world's wealthiest nation provides a worse relief effort than the third world countries they've been in. Especially because there was plenty of warning this was coming. I think it has to do with the unwillingness of the US to spend anything on the common good (the ideal of 'small government'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 It saddens me to see this topic turn into another "anti-american" thingy once again. It's not the right place to do it, in my opinion, especially when there's absolutely no proof to backup your claims, RXS. I think the french TV must have devoted at least 2 hours a day to Katrina and its consequences, calling people for help, etc. And not even once have I heard critics concerning the US government or its supposed lack of appropriate measures, by the way. The only critics were uttered in short interview of american victims, they were the ones who stigmatize your own government, for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[FF5]Knix Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 What is going on in New Orleans right now is something that I have only seen in 3rd world countries...not the most powerfull country in the world. I am not pleased with the speed of the response from the government. Let it be said the US Government has failed New Orleans. When I say the U.S. Governement I am saying both Democrat and Republican. The appropriation of monies to fortify the levy system in place (which was to protect the current state of events from happening up to a level 3 hurricane), was always pushed back by every administration since the levy system was established. The yearly 1 in 200 chance of such a storm hitting the city has come to pass. People are starving, bodies of all ages from baby to aged are decompossing in the open. I cant even fathom how helpless it must feel to have your child in your arms and not be able to feed them or give them water. To have to fend off looters and rapists. I am having the same feeling in my stomach that I had Sep 12th. On Sep 11th I saw everything happen with my own eyes, I was numb to it that day, not realizing what I had experienced would change our world as we now it. The next day it hit me. I'm getting this same feeling again. I'm not going to argue or discuss anything about this topic with anyone. I'm sitting this one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caip Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 It saddens me to see this topic turn into another "anti-american" thingy once again. 13917[/snapback] This is no anti-american topic...at least I did not have the intention to sound anti-american, if I did I am really sorry. I just don't get why they weren't prepared and organized enough to garantuee quick help, because they have the resources to do so! But afaik the situation is slowly getting under control! I just hope the situation won't debase any further! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I'd hope so too. Unfortunately: Explosions Rock New Orleans Nightmare of robbery, filth, death & rape in superdome (I think I read somewhere they dropped evacuateed prisoners amongst the citizens, can't seem to find it, though ) Let's hope things start improving instead of deteriorating. And sorry for responding to the trolling - I should know better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death in a Box Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 The US is so slow because they don't have any army people to come help, because they are over in Iraq busy conquering and taking over the country and trying to instill their own rule. They had to call in the reserves just to help with the hurricane. I woul donate, but I've heard too many things about the Red Cross, that leads me to not trust them. Plus I have no credit cards or checks or anything like that, only cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Actually, the US has already diverted 10.5 BILLION dollars to the area for relief and rebuild. Getting aid and relief to those stranded has been a comedy of errors. As President Bush stated, "...it is unacceptable..." The $1M donation from Venezuela (per Goo's article) is suspect for political motives... But Venezuelan commentator Ibsen Martinez, a frequent government critic, said the aid offer by Chavez seems to serve other intentions as well. "He's trying to win a political game," Martinez said. "It's very astute." Oh and Gen - this isn't an anti American thingy. What proof do you want to back up claims? Condolences are nice, but they don't really help when people are dieing of thirst or starvation or trying to rebuild their lives. There will always be individuals who rise to the occation to provide aid and relief like E1 or some of the Swiss citizens mentioned in Goo's article (and for that we have much to be thankful for)...the underlying question I posed was really directed more to the governments of the world. The biggest critic of the American Government (under any administration) is the American People....just as it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 This is no anti-american topic...at least I did not have the intention to sound anti-american, if I did I am really sorry. I just don't get why they weren't prepared and organized enough to garantuee quick help, because they have the resources to do so! But afaik the situation is slowly getting under control! I just hope the situation won't debase any further! 13927[/snapback] In fact, Caip, I was not refering to your post, but rather to RXS' first post in this thread. My bad, I didn't make myself very clear. I'm just tired of seing every serious discussion turn into a debate about the way people "see" the US government or the US people worldwide. Armstrong is suspected of having cheated in 99? Anti-american propaganda, darn frenchies. A hurricane strikes the South? Oh, people will surely spend most of their time talking crap about the government, etc. I think we have better things to do and talk about. Sorry if I didn't get what you wanted to say at first sight, RXS, but I'm so used to having to defend people who are seen as America's enemies these days that I thought it was another one of these little attacks. Sorry, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 You sounded pretty bitter before Gen. Sorry if you are offended by the nature of this topic, maybe you should sit this one out. j/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 the underlying question I posed was really directed more to the governments of the world. Well, that still takes it back to (seemingly) partisan politics. Because it took the White House until thursday to accept aid from abroad. Before that it was: He (Bush) said the United States could take care of itself and did not expect to tap contributions from foreign countries. From an interview on ABC's Good Morning America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I'm certainly NOT offended by the nature of this topic, why would I? Did I even talk about it? I think not. New Orleans counts among the places I love the most on this planet, I have friends there who've lost everything they had, and watching this poor city sink in the biggest toliet flush ever was terrible. Anyway, it's normal to see such a mess in New Orleans, it was founded by the French. Just kidding, RXS. Oh, I see you were joking too. "Let's call it a draw" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Sonic Goo,Sep 2 2005, 08:36 AM]Well, that still takes it back to (seemingly) partisan politics. Because it took the White House until thursday to accept aid from abroad. Before that it was: He (Bush) said the United States could take care of itself and did not expect to tap contributions from foreign countries. From an interview on ABC's Good Morning America 13944[/snapback] I think the scale of the destruction and the circumstances are continuing to unfold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I think the scale of the destruction and the circumstances are continuing to unfold. 13959[/snapback] Have you been watching the news? It was quite clear from even before it hit that this was going to be big. Really big. Not much imagination needed for that. In fact, there should've been plans ready for this kind of thing to happen that should've been implemented immediately. I've worked for government back in Holland and the disaster plans are quite comprehensive, with backups for backups etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Have you been watching the news? It was quite clear from even before it hit that this was going to be big. Really big. Not much imagination needed for that. In fact, there should've been plans ready for this kind of thing to happen that should've been implemented immediately. I've worked for government back in Holland and the disaster plans are quite comprehensive, with backups for backups etc. etc. 13960[/snapback] No way, this is covered on TV news? There were variables no one knew about or thought would happen i.e. looters, hoodlums preventing and hampering rescue efforts. The US has been hit by several big hurricanes in the past and this type of crap did not happen (at least not on this scale). Those are the circumstances that continue to unfold. Everyone new that it was going to be big hours before it hit, but you need more than hours to put together a relief / emergency plan. No one is debating that it should have been done earlier or that plans should have already been in place. City and local governments will be held accountable I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 City and local governments will be held accountable I'm sure. 13963[/snapback] How about federal government? (link link link link link) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Sonic Goo,Sep 2 2005, 09:28 AM]How about federal government? (link link link link link) 13966[/snapback] Was there ever a question that they wouldn't? It starts at a local level...no one knows the specific needs of a city better than that city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Ah, certainly, RXS. It starts at a local level, I do agree with this, but what do you do if the situation requires so much money that all the other states would have to contribute? And again, once you've passed the information and asked for help, what do you do if no-one answers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 If you'd click any of the links, you'd see how the federal level is relevant in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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