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huh.gif Care to elaborate? Bush has a long history of being, well, anti-environment. For example, he was very late in confirming the existence of global warming (link, link). And he was the one blocking an agreement here. If that's what you mean.

 

Anyway, it seems the trade agreements don't include things like farm subsidies. Blerg.

 

 

(Oh. And for those who missed the whole thing - here it is.

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Bush hit the nail on the head...the scientific community does not agree on causes of global warming. You can't fix the problem when you don't understand it, or what causes it, not to mention the numerous variables that effect climate change as well (i.e. changing shape of the Geoid (Earth), our imperfect mathematical model of the geoid, our proximity to sun with relation to the orbit of the Earth, changing plant and animal life, etc, etc).

 

A few pin heads have taken a few statistics and distorted them to further the cause of their own agendas. In fact, several in the scientific community believe that we are in a global cooling trend based on empirical data. Within the trend, there are ups and downs in global temperature. We are currently seeing a slight rise in global temperature, but that is no different than any other up or down trend we have already seen. I am in this community and have studied both sides of the debate as an objective engineer/earth scientist. The amount of "greenhouse" gases that man has produced over his short existence here on Earth is paled in comparison to a single, large volcanic event.

 

And by the way, you can't hold Bush as being anti environmental because he did not go along with the Kyoto Protocol. It was flawed from it's conception.

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Nice points, well put RXS............what is your opinion of the difference between :-

the quick expulsion of gases caused by a volcano and.......

the prolonged emission of gases caused by human pollution.

 

Do you think the earth is able recover from a volcano easier than prolonged pollution. We have history of volcano's and how the earth recovers but not of human pollution. Finally some of the earth's recovery period covered many years after major volcanic eruptions............will the same recovery process be required for human pollution.??

 

Well this is the serious debate section!! blink.gifhuh.gifwacko.gifranting2.gif

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And how do they explain all the holes in the ozone layer? Even I noticed that something is different than it used to be years ago when i was a kid..The sun is burning more and we got warmer climate..Before we used to have -35 degrees here in the winters but the past couple of years we barely reached -30..It might be this up and down thread like RXS said but what caused the ozonelayer to get thin or in some places holes in it if it aint the greenhouse gases unsure.gif

I dont think the volcano gases causes that much harm like the ones caused by humans..Volcanos is a part of the nature and have always been so i think the mother nature can handle that and heal from that much faster..

 

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Now that's scary. We should wait until we're sure? Because experiments are not enough, maybe? Oh yeah, sure, it's not on the same scale. You're right, RXS, let's wait until we can't live on this planet anymore and then try to examine the possible causes. Nothing's better than experience, after all...

 

Well you might be right when you say that "the amount of "greenhouse" gases that man has produced over his short existence here on Earth is paled in comparison to a single volcanic event" (are you sure, BTW?), but these two factors have never been added in the past.

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Gen,

 

Slippery slope and appeal to fear. Stay out of the thread if you are going to be a smart azz. mad.gif

 

 

 

Moody,

 

If you are interested in the latest understanding of our Ozone Layer within the scientific community, clickhere

 

The ozone layer lies approximately 15-40 kilometers (10-25 miles) above the Earth's surface, in the stratosphere. Depletion of this layer by Ozone-Depleting Substances (ODS) will lead to higher UVB levels, which in turn will cause increased skin cancers and cataracts and potential damage to some marine organisms, plants, and plastics...we typically don't associate Ozone depletion with global warming as there are different events happening here. The cool thing about our Ozone Layer is that it is replenishable - Ozone is a byproduct of lightning strikes.

 

And BTW - Consumer aerosol products in the US have not used ozone-depleting substances since the late 1970s because of voluntary switching followed by federal regulation. The Clean Air Act and EPA regulations further restricted the use of ODS for non-consumer products. All consumer products, and most other aerosol products, now use propellants that do not deplete the ozone layer, such as hydrocarbons and compressed gases.

 

ONYX,

 

Good question. The expulsion of gases through geologic processes has been happening for several million years prior to man and continues even today. There have obviously been times when these processes were more frequent or, conversely, less frequent. Currently we are in what we call a dormant or sleepy period. Although there are still continual eruptions from volcanoes around the world, they are not on the same scale as activity we have seen over the past millions of years. So in essence, the expulsion of CO2, CO, H2S, HCl, HF, H2, SO2, etc, etc. has happened for several millions of years. Globally, large explosive eruptions that inject a tremendous volume of sulfur aerosols into the stratosphere can lead to lower surface temperatures and promote depletion of the Earth's ozone layer. The expulsion of gases by man has been relatively quick geologically speaking.

 

Recovery is broad term...to what level...where is the benchmark? Undoubtably, it will take some time to negate the harmful effects of certain types of man made pollutions.

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It is a well known fact that the eminations from belching cows has a grave negative effect on the ozone layer. Therefore I propose that we kill all those dang blasted gasious bovines, thus eliminating the threat to the ozone layer, mad cow disease, carnivore behaviour by humans, and another anti-American post by Sonic goop all in one fell swoop.

 

 

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Need I remind you all of who we're dealing with...

 

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesG/bushfingers.jpg

 

That said, Knix: don't call people un-American, it's ghetto, and it can erode your credibility in a debate. Quite a few people disagree with the Bush Administration's policies and that doesn't mean that they're un-American, quite the contrary...I would never call you un-American.

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Stay out of the thread if you are going to be a smart azz

Thanks for the compliment. laugh.gif Who are you to tell me to stay out of a thread, by the way? If you don't like what I have to say, that's your problem. It's just an OPINION, and I hope I still have the right to free speech. If you felt insulted by my post, sorry, it was meant to be sarcastic, but not insulting.

 

It is a well known fact that the eminations from belching cows has a grave negative effect on the ozone layer. Therefore I propose that we kill all those dang blasted gasious bovines, thus eliminating the threat to the ozone layer, mad cow disease, carnivore behaviour by humans, and another anti-American post by Sonic goop all in one fell swoop.

7333[/snapback]

 

Now that's not your average "serious discussions post".

1) Remember that not all american people think like you do, Knix.

2) Stop saying we're anti-american, we're against some of the current american politics. My only hope is that the end of your post was supposed to be as funny as the rest of it... dry.gif

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I said ANTI-American, not un-American daybreak.

 

You also don't find it interesting that 75pct of the topics started by Sonic Goo fall under the "Why Bush is a big fat idiot" Category?

 

Well I'm not got to let him get away with it. Until he starts spreading some of his "intelectual" wealth around to other nations other then mine, I will do all possible to sabatoge his topics. If you don't believe me, go look at the "show all posts" for Mr. Goo, and you will see a common theme.

 

Just flew in from Nice today. The french were very friendly and did not even leer at me when I boarded the plane with my "George Bush is my King" T-shirt. However the bomb sniffing German Sheppard tore off my pant leg. C'est la vie!

 

 

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I stand corrected...however, I would disagree just as fervently with you labeling people as anti-American since Sonic has stated in the past the he is 'not' anti-American. I can understand your frustration with what may seem like coordinated attacks on your point of view, but they're most likely unfounded. Lastly, disagree if you must, but don't sabotage sleep.gif

 

For some strange reason I think we'd get along... wacko.gif

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Sonic has stated in the past the he is 'not' anti-American

 

Oh well, if he said that then, well, that's good enough for me. dry.gif

 

 

For some strange reason I think we'd get along...

 

Yeah i can get along with just about anyone.....just about. tongue.gif

 

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kinda strange how the non-americans say they are not anti-american yet they only speak of topics pertaining to america.

7371[/snapback]

 

Lod, it's not "topics pertaining to america", most of the things we discussed, like gay mariage and environment, are GENERAL topics, dammit! The only problem is that there are no european conservatives visiting this board, but they do exist for sure, and if Goo, Daybreak and I (and others) are liberals, or, if you prefer, "anti-conservative", we're certainly NOT anti-american. wink.gif

 

(I might copy this post and copy it regularly, eh, it's only the 4th time I say the same thing)

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Genesis did you check goo's post history like I suggested? Saying you are not Anti-American, does not make it so. I am an American, President Bush is the leader of my country. The US goverment represents among many people....me! So if Goo wants to post every 4th topic (as he has at one time in every forum in the NOLF community) how the US does this wrong, or that wrong, or Bush is this, or that, I have grounds for my opinion that he is anti-American. So as I have this opinion and don't have the pleasure of meeting Mr. Goo face to face, I will confront him as I have done on every post that I feel to be part of his plan to crap on my country. Because I feel this way does not make me Sen. Joseph McCarthy. I am quite sure you would get tired of hearing the same crap over and over about the French being wussies, and lucky to be not speaking German, lazy, willing to go on strike if the government does not want to pay them for a 3rd month of vacation a year, etc. And you would be right to annoyed as well.

 

 

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The US goverment represents among many people....me! So if Goo wants to post every 4th topic (as he has at one time in every forum in the NOLF community) how the US does this wrong, or that wrong, or Bush is this, or that, I have grounds for my opinion that he is anti-American.

7400[/snapback]

 

You're making the massive mistake of equating the American government to its citizens. Bush is one person, his administration is made up of a few of people. The United States is decidedly much more complex that the agenda of a handful of people. You may of course have your opinions, but by your rationale, I am anti-American, and I assure you, quite the opposite is true. You may equate yourself with our government but that's 'you', not everyone else. You don't need me to tell you that your over-generalizations are completely out of touch with reality.

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Not really. I voted for the current person in office on two occasions. Who does the President represent then if not his people? Guam? You can say all that you wish of your unhappyness with our current administration, but whether you like it our not, it is OUR administration.

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Lod, it's not "topics pertaining to america", most of the things we discussed, like gay mariage and environment, are GENERAL topics, dammit! The only problem is that there are no european conservatives visiting this board, but they do exist for sure, and if Goo, Daybreak and I (and others) are liberals, or, if you prefer, "anti-conservative", we're certainly NOT anti-american. wink.gif

 

(I might copy this post and copy it regularly, eh, it's only the 4th time I say the same thing)

7393[/snapback]

 

 

some topics ae surely global. the problem is it usually turns to how america is handling them. while i consider myself conservative, i do not agree with all conservative thinking.

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Not really. I voted for the current person in office on two occasions. Who does the President represent then if not his people? Guam? You can say all that you wish of your unhappyness with our current administration, but whether you like it our not, it is OUR administration.

7454[/snapback]

 

 

not only that but he received more votes than any president in history. we can't allbe wrong.

 

don't answer that genesis. tongue.gif

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user posted image

 

Square miles of counties won

 

 

Bush 2.54 million

 

Kerry 592,000

 

Population (2003) of counties won

 

 

Bush 159,2 million

 

Kerry 130.9 million

 

Counties won by less than 5 percentage points

 

 

Bush 164

 

Kerry 146

 

 

 

 

 

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You forgot to mention the percentages.

 

Anyway, I'm flattered that there's now a topic about me. rolleyes.gif But somehow this just seems to be another case of attacking the messenger instead of the message. Just keep calling me anti-American and people will believe it. An easy way of dismissing anything I say. Just address the issues or STFU. This forum was not made for personal attacks (I'm sure the mods will agree).

 

And if you'd look at my posting history, you'll see that I've tried to keep politics out of this forum as long as possible. However, if people ask for my opinion (which is basically what I consider starting a topic to be), I will reply. When people post outright lies, I will adress that. Do you want me to apologise for my political stances? I'm the one always substantiating his claims with as many facts from as reliable sources as possible. Can you say the same? No. Do you know what that makes you?

 

Do you want me to mention something I like about America? Here's something - Bill Clinton. Better?

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You can say all that you wish of your unhappyness with our current administration, but whether you like it our not, it is OUR administration.

 

I'm sorry, I still don't get it. You say that a country's administration represents its citizens, and that criticizing the administration is equivalent to criticizing the country itself, in a way?

 

Sorry, no.

 

Let's talk about the former Soviet Union. And now, tell me about the millions of american people who were, or still are, anti-communists. Were they anti-russian? I don't think so, otherwise, the perestroïka would've remained a dream, and the Cold War would've turned into a real one. You can love a country without loving its administration. Another example? We wouldn't have been able to build the European Union with the German people if we had been anti-german, and not only anti-nazi well, most of us wink.gif ). Now if you feel persecuted, if you feel that Goo or I or anyone "craps on your country" because we disagree with the lider maximo, too bad...

 

___________________

Gotta agree with Goo, once more, on one thing: admitting that you will do anything to reply whatever the subject, even if you don't have anything clever to say, is not the best thing to do. Your post about his supposed "anti-american" feelings was off-topic and (yes) provocative.

 

___________________

As for what RXS posted, I think the most interesting statistics about the election is this one:

Square miles of counties won

 

 

Bush 2.54 million

 

Kerry 592,000

No comment laugh.gif

 

And it must be the 5th time I see this map posted here or on TGF. Is it some kind of argument? Ah, "159,2 million people can't be wrong, I guess". Is that what it's supposed to mean? I'm sure that from time to time, in your lives, you faced situations in the which, despite being part of the "minority", you were SURE that you were right, and experience proved you were. 15 people want to go right, 10 people want to go left, but the whole group goes right anyway and falls from a cliff... Sincerely, I hope America will avoid the cliff, but I'm not sure, not sure at all.

 

Now one of those simple examples again.

 

What if the french extreme-right leader Jean-Marie le Pen had won the elections in 2002? Would you expect me to defend him just because he would've won? Wouldn't I have the right to disagree with his opinions? Would the fact of fighting him and his ideas make me a bad french, or an enemy of my own country? NO. Of course, it applies to any other politician, from any party or political orientation, in any other country worldwide. We all have the right to disagree, the right to criticize what we feel is wrong, and that's it. Strangely, DayBreak is american, but I'm sure he doesn't feel like we attack his country, am I wrong? unsure.gif

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No comment laugh.gif

 

And it must be the 5th time I see this map posted here or on TGF. Is it some kind of argument? Ah, "159,2 million people can't be wrong, I guess". Is that what it's supposed to mean? I'm sure that from time to time, in your lives, you faced situations in the which, despite being part of the "minority", you were SURE that you were right, and experience proved you were. 15 people want to go right, 10 people want to go left, but the whole group goes right anyway and falls from a cliff... Sincerely, I hope America will avoid the cliff, but I'm not sure, not sure at all.

 

7485[/snapback]

So if I understand you correctly, you are pissed off that I posted the election facts? Give me a break...You've seen it in other places?...well good for you buddy. Your little tirade gave me a good laugh tongue.gif

 

Daybreak and Knix were discussing, in essence, if anyone believes in the current admins politics. The map helps define how the US voted and where they live.

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You forgot to mention the percentages.

 

Anyway, I'm flattered that there's now a topic about me.  But somehow this just seems to be another case of attacking the messenger instead of the message. Just keep calling me anti-American and people will believe it. An easy way of dismissing anything I say. Just address the issues or STFU. This forum was not made for personal attacks (I'm sure the mods will agree).

 

And if you'd look at my posting history, you'll see that I've tried to keep politics out of this forum as long as possible. However, if people ask for my opinion (which is basically what I consider starting a topic to be), I will reply. When people post outright lies, I will adress that. Do you want me to apologise for my political stances? I'm the one always substantiating his claims with as many facts from as reliable sources as possible. Can you say the same? No. Do you know what that makes you?

 

Do you want me to mention something I like about America? Here's something - Bill Clinton. Better?

 

Its the SAME messenger bringing the SAME message OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I don't REMEMBER ANYONE asking you for your opinion, as you START these topic's yourself goo-boy.

 

I addressed the issue my way. You can take your snobby pseudo intelectual linking to graphs, charts, and other visual aides that can be skewed to protect your liberal anti-american views and ...well you can imagine the rest. I will not "STFU" as you suggest, and continue to do all my best to ruin every anti-american topic you start. If you don't like it you can go cry on your big liberal pillow.

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