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Sorry Rocks, but i'm just fresh out of liberal ideas. Bout killed me to come up with what I did. Interesting the only one's left in the convo are Conservatives.

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Sorry Rocks, but i'm just fresh out of liberal ideas. Bout killed me to come up with what I did. Interesting the only one's left in the convo are Conservatives.

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that's because a liberal will never admit to being liberal.

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I'll second that.  Nor will they admit to being closed minded...lol

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Okay, everyone should stop making generalizations because it just looks stupid. Believe me, everyone here sounds pretty closed minded, myself included, but I think there's more...I think there's a difference between standing for/and believing in something and closed-mindedness. I'd like to think that as a liberal (see, I admitted it), that open-mindedness is inherent to my value system. There is diversity between both camps. Many liberals, myself included, are a little PO'd at Howard Dean at the moment for commenting that Republicans are a group of white Christians (he himself is a white Christian). This is not helpful, it is not constructive for the Democratic party. And lastly, it is not true. The Republican party is comprised of all races, ethnicities, and oddly enough, even sexual orientations. Did he have a point? Most likely. From our perspective, the Republican party is not made of white Christians, but it is 'set up' for white Christians. Again, from our perspective, anyone who currently votes Republican who is not white, somewhat wealthy, and Christian, is essentially voting against their own best interests. Economically and socially, this is what we see happening. The lesson here is to not generalize groups of people, to do so will only perpetuate wildly inaccurate information.

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The lesson here is to not generalize groups of people, to do so will only perpetuate wildly inaccurate information.

 

Oh...you mean like this:

 

from our perspective, anyone who currently votes Republican who is not white, somewhat wealthy, and Christian, is essentially voting against their own best interests.
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I figured that'd come up-what with the points being right next to each other. What you quoted me on was a blanket statement that I should not have made; I was referring to generalizations that are 'clearly' useless, insulting, and inaccurate, which is not to say that generalization isn't necessary, it's often times all we have to work with. I don't want this to turn into an argument of hypocrisy, I assure you, I'm just stupid and inarticulate. I was attempting to restate Dean's comments in a way that makes a little more sense...This is our perspective, and more to the point, mine. You have generalizations about our side of the aisle just as we have generalizations about yours...The issue is about coming to an understanding, perhaps debunking some of our generalizations-and let's face it, some generalizations are more or less true. We can be honest and form educated opinions on what generalizations we subscribe to and to what extent, or we can be smartasses. Dean made a stupid, angry, and inaccurate generalization. Mine was not meant to insult, but to garner some empathy, and to give some point of view to the situation. Generalizing is unfortunately what we have to deal with in politics, but like I said, we have a choice.

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I agree with everything you just said...just thought I would bust your balls on that one.

 

My generalization is that liberals profess to being open minded; however, my experiences with them has led me to believe they are often very close minded to any other point of view unless it is their own.

 

Speaking of Dean, he made another comment about how (I shall paraphrase) "Republicans have never worked an honest day in their life"...if that is true about Republicans, then it must be true with all political parties. That dude has got a big mouth and is digging himself a deeper hole not to mention hurting his parties credibility. Now in true Dean victory style, Yeeeeeeeeeeeya! I'm out.

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My balls have been busted and rightfully so. I think we've had a breakthrough here, and some much needed empathy has entered this topic. You said

 

My generalization is that liberals profess to being open minded; however, my experiences with them has led me to believe they are often very close minded to any other point of view unless it is their own.

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I can't vouch for all liberals here, but they certainly come off this way sometimes. But then, so do conservatives. Pig-headedness is unfortunately pervasive across the board. I've just had a huge sigh of relief knowing that you understand my perspective. I'd also like to add that when you state the facts and discuss 'why' you feel a certain way, then I can easily put myself in your shoes. We haven't exactly been discussing issues in this topic thusfar, but rather, each other. I can see how you might feel this way about liberals, and you're probably correct in thinking that many liberals are pig-headed; and it dilutes and nullifies their message, which is Dean's problem at the moment. The topics get lost in useless, off-color comments which are quickly transformed into talking points, Dean knows this as well as anybody. Let's rise above people!

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My intent when I started this topic was for people to have to look inside themselves. It is real easy as a Conservative leaning person to say.

1) I support the death penalty

2) I support the abolishment of the estate/death tax

3) I support state's rights

4) Howard Dean violates collies.

 

etc.

 

But it is a true measure of a person to see how you agree with "the other side." I understand the points of the "Progressive" Party. I just don't happen to agree with most of them.

 

Its a means to an end.

Everyone of us republican, democrat, libertarian, green party, all want.

 

1) Peace on earth

2) To leave this world a better place then we found it.

3) to rid the world of starvation, poverty, and oppression.

 

What we disagree on is the right path to accomplish these things.

 

I know I sound like a broken record, but I REALLY suggest that if you have some time to read some works from Ayn Rand.

 

Besides the bible, "Atlas Shrugged" is the top rated book on the list of "most influential books ever to be read."

 

Whether you agree with her philosphy or not, she gives a very interesting view on the power of the individual over the power of the "greater good". She goes to show how the power of the individual and the striving of the individual in the long run helps the greater good. It helps on a much greater scale then the ideals of Socialism and Communism.

 

So if you have read her works, let me know what you think. If you have not check them out.

 

Here are some....

 

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

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I think we shoudl legalize all drugs.

 

 

That one scares the hell out of me! Too many people all jacked up and running around as it is. Imagine a society where operating vehicles, doing surgeries, building public structures, etc. could be performed while under mind altering substances. No thanks...

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That one scares the hell out of me!  Too many people all jacked up and running around as it is.  Imagine a society where operating vehicles, doing surgeries, building public structures, etc. could be performed while under mind altering substances.  No thanks...

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I'm pretty sure they don't let surgeons perform surgeries drunk off their asses. We would increase the penalties of driving under the influence, hurt the Columbian Cartel by making it a corporate business in America. If you have learned about the drugs, you would know that alcohol is one of the worst, pot, weed, etc are not nearly as mind affecting as alcohol. Heroin and XTC though... probably should be careful with those. However this is America, if people want to ruin their lives by shooting up heroin, they should be allowed to. As long as it doesn't affect anyone else negatively.

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I'd just like to add that the concept of legalizing drugs, and especially 'all drugs' is most assuredly NOT a liberal point of view. I'm not sure how the rest of us on the left feel, but let me say that there's a difference between the legalization of drugs and the decriminalization of drugs, a big difference. Far too many individuals are currently jailed for having an addiction, which is considered a disease. These are the individuals who haven't victimized anyone, yet are treated like common criminals. I personally feel that these people need help, if they choose to accept it, and not jail time. They are still productive members of society. Let me disclaim this by saying that I cannot speak for all liberals here, this is just my opinion, but I suspect that many on the left feel this way as well. Lastly, I am very anti-drug, which includes marijuana outside of medicinal use.

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I'm pretty sure they don't let surgeons perform surgeries drunk off their asses.

 

Don't be so sure...its happened.

 

Example: surgery while intoxicated was just made illegal in Texas when Rick Perry signed this bill into law...HB 1592 06/20/2003 Nixon Relating to the establishment of the offense of performing surgery while intoxicated. You can read all about it here---> http://www.governor.state.tx.us/divisions/press/bills2003

 

I could dig up a million more. My point is that people make bad decisions when they are under mind altering drugs...just ask any drunk leaving a bar and most will tell you they are completely capable of driving home (maybe we could use the same example with a doctor preparing for a surgery). We all know the devastating effects of drunk driving.

 

 

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Speaking of Dean, he made another comment about how (I shall paraphrase) "Republicans have never worked an honest day in their life"...if that is true about Republicans, then it must be true with all political parties.  That dude has got a big mouth and is digging himself a deeper hole not to mention hurting his parties credibility.  Now in true Dean victory style, Yeeeeeeeeeeeya! I'm out.

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wtf. howard dean was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. he lived among the elite of new york city. boy oh boy.

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Imagine a society where operating vehicles, doing surgeries, building public structures, etc. could be performed while under mind altering substances.  No thanks...

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Have you looked outside your window lately?

 

Truckers taking amphetamines, ambulance and firetruck drivers, as well as doctors and surgeons, chasing the dragon during their shifts, builders and factory workers hitting the piss during their lunchbreak, media/PR/Fashion/Film types coked up to their eyeballs swaying gently on 10 inch heels, bus and taxi drivers skinning up a big doob before a shift and the list goes on. Those things that you so desperately want to ensure aren't being done by hopped-up hooligans probably already are. Besides, it's prohibited to consume alcohol in the situations you decribed, so it would be logical to assume that the use of other drugs in those circumstances would also be disallowed.

 

In his book "Out of if", Stuart Walton researches the history of intoxication in the modern world and concludes that, while there are many different reasons for it, almost every society in human history has a tradition of ritual intoxication. The great empires of the east were built on the back of the opium and hashish trade. Welcome to reality; people are taking drugs everywhere, and always have. Legalising drugs is a step that must be considered and trialled.

 

Currently the world drugs trade is the biggest area of international black-market investment. That money gets used to traffic teenage prostitutes (slaves) around Europe, smuggle outworkers from Asia in shipping containers to the US and fund militias (and, yes, terrorists) in areas such as South America and Afghanistan. Taking money out of that system and creating an infrastructure through which to inform and educate is a far better idea, even if that also involves supply.

 

I remember reading an article in a London paper where a minor UK celebrity made an excellent point about the average user's attitude to drugs. He said that when he was at Uni he lived with another guy, and both of them smoked copious quantities of the maryjane. The thing that he finds so shocking about it these days is that he and his mate used to skin up before breakfast, but neither of them would ever even think of downing a pint at that time of the day, because that's what alcho's do. Needless to say, the irony was lost on him at the time.

 

Those in power have tried to make drug use "uncool" to dissuade kids from taking drugs, but those who dictate cool have never fallen in line. Even though Trainspotting makes the lives of junkies look horrible, they are still portrayed in a somewhat glamourous light. They are the new James Deans, rebels against a cold and difficult society; "Choose life. But why the f*** would I want to do that?" As a result, the abuse they inflict on their bodies' is percieved as a statement against that society, and not the act of self harm that it is.

 

The point that I'm making is that, no matter what you do, people are going to try and get off their faces, and, while drugs are illegal (therefore rebellious, therefore "cool"), instead of listening to legitimate health arguments against what they are doing, those people who do have the urge to become intoxicated will dismiss all advice about their choices as nothing more than wowserism.

 

Couple that with the damage that all of that drug money does around the world, and I think that's reason enough to explore decriminalisation at least, if not full legalisation. Remember: nothing says something's uncool better than "You know, your mother and I like to have a bit of..."

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  • 2 weeks later...
KNIX,May 19 2005, 03:28 PM]- I believe homosexuals should be allowed to fight openly in the miltary as long as they are physically able to do so.

 

 

Do you however feel that they should have a normal, human right to marry and live normal lives ? There are more homosexuals, I'm sure, who would much rather live a normal life than a military life.

 

What do you think ?

 

Alexandre Orion

France

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where are the remaining conservatives (??? I guess you meant liberals) such as sonic goo and brother soulhunter?

 

Uh? Did anyone say anything interesting that we missed, apart from "boy this topic fizzled out"? I think it tends to show that my fellow "liberals" are out of "conservative" views, that's all. It doesn't mean we abandonned the ship. wink.gif

 

(Sorry, that was Genesis who forgot to log out from Alexandre's account.)

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I only start awesome topics I can keep them going forever...thats for you guys.

 

Unlike another new member from Brazil who was saved by E1 from me unleashing a horrendous (mother of all) verbal batterings on him by closing his redundant topic on NOLF2 WALK hacks ooooooooo! My topics are original, thought inducing, sometimes nausea inducing, and vibrant BABY!

 

ok to answer your question Mr. Former American

 

Do you however feel that they should have a normal, human right to marry and live normal lives ?

 

No I do not believe they should have the right to marry.

 

So Alexandre please state your most Conservative view.

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

"not sure why a person could not have an abortion during a storm. "

 

Ya know, i just read my post for the first time, and i swear i typed "storm." Not sure how "storm" got in there! Oh well, i'm used to looking like an idiot from time to time.

 

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