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Your most liberal/Conservative view


[FF5]Knix
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Over the course of the past year and a half, i have battled many people who's opinions were more to the left of my own. While it is easy to promote your opinions if they are in harmony with your overall political views, the real metal of a man/woman is to admit that you sometimes deep down agree with the enemy.

 

So if you consider your self liberal/progressive, state your most Conservative right leaning belief/view.

 

If you consider yourself Conservative, state your most Liberal left leaning belief/view.

 

 

I consider myself to be a conservative person and....

 

- I believe homosexuals should be allowed to fight openly in the miltary as long as they are physically able to do so.

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First of all, that's a very black and white view of the world. Coming from a place with a whole spectrum of political parties, that seems a bit strange.

 

Also, you can have differing views on one and the same subject. Take, for example, the Iraq war.

 

When I saw Colin Powell's speech to the UN, I was amazed by the flimsiness of the evidence presented there and was very much opposed to the idea of going to war with Iraq.

However, once the first fighting was over, I realised there was an opportunity to change things for the better and I supported that.

Then it turned out that opportunity was squandered through lack of planning, mismanagement, corruption, etc. and I felt there would be no way to win back those 'hearts and minds'. So then I advocated getting out, because it would only prolong the misery and delay the inevitable.

 

Same issue, different opinions. If you look at it in simple 'pro' and 'con' terms, it might look strange. But if you look beyond that, it makes sense.

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Knix, that was a very brave and logical thing to say coming from a conservative background. This question has many unexpected twists and turns, however. I am certainly the farthest thing from conservative, but I suppose that I have a couple of conservative beliefs...For instance, I am for smaller government (in some instances) and fiscal responsibility----which, oddly enough, appears to no longer be a conservative beliefs. Has anyone noticed that the positive attributes of the Republican party have essentially ceased under this president? Him and his administration are on a permanent vacation from logic in favor of fallacious reasoning and the politics of morality. Ever since the terrorist attacks, a great deal of Americans have voted with their emotions, and against their own best interests. Conservative beliefs that once were are clearly no longer. I cannot buy into blind patriotism and religious dogma as a new basis for running this country.

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Let it be known that the conservative is the only person so far that has given up an generally opposite opinion WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED! tongue.gif

 

I agree Sonic that we can get all grey area with this topic, but that is no fun, and gets away from my goal to see how honest we can be on admiting a view or opinion that generally goes "against the grain" from where your views normally lie.

 

So dig down deep and give me a conservative view of yours that is more then seeing the possible benefits AT ONE TIME of the US invasion in Iraq!

 

I want to hear that you approve of the clubbing of baby seals in Canada for example! laugh.gif

 

Seriously I think you get the idea now.

 

Have fun with this, we will all learn something.

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I believe homosexuals should be allowed to fight openly in the miltary as long as they are physically able to do so.

 

That's your most liberal view? You're a scary guy, Knix biggrin.gif

 

My most conservative view is that I think that Trotskyites, Marxists, Anarchists et al should just STFU until they can contribute something more meaningful to the political discourse than "Well, this wouldn't be a problem is you'd embrace [insert wacky ideology here]".

 

Taking ideas from other political systems is a great idea, but it always seems like these guys are waiting for the revolution to come before they'll try and make things better.

 

However, in true liberal form, I also think that economic rationalists, neo-conservatives, wealthy industrialists, logging companies, oil companies, stockbrokers, CEOs, the entire Bush family, banks, religious fundamentalists (yes, that means christian ones too), mining companies, car manufacturers, soft drink makers, fast food chains, et al should STFU first.

 

If they do, I will. I promise.

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Excellent Response Coach Jason. Extremists on either side allow their judgement and reasoning to be clouded by an ideology. Far left or right, this is the path to the dark side. Those who purport to know the entire truth and have all the answers are no better than their political, polar-opposites.

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That's your most liberal view? You're a scary guy, Knix

 

I have a couple of more coach, but if I state them in public my Republican registration card may be revoked.

 

Another Liberal stating an opposing view....WITH STRINGS ATTACHED! I love it! You can't let go! You all still think this is some test, and that I'm going to hold up a mirror to you and say AAAAAAAAAHAAA! Just come with it! Like a band-aid...PULL IT RIGHT OFF!

 

Also a note to my fellow conservatives (the other 3 in the NOLF community!)....Let us hear from you as well! Step up to the plate! Abortion, gay marrige, the inheritance tax, nuclear proliferation, the pledge of allegience, your secret love of Maplethorpe's art......BRING ITTTTTT!

 

 

laugh.giflaugh.gif

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I'm trying to think of something, I honestly am, Knix. Ow, it's hurting the brain thinking this hard. *gears are grinding, smoke is coming out my ears* Oh wait! Got one, I think.

 

I'm for legalizing marijuina... for medicinal purposes only.

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I'm more than a little worried about the worlds only super power having total dominance over the world, they can affect my life, yet I have no say in what they do.

One day, and I think it may be sooner than later, we will have to have a world order with electable/accountable people running it.

The trouble with humans is that we naturally want to "clan" join a team, (look at NOLF), its part of our survival, but................ will we ever be able to clan together as one earth people.....................

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I suspect that the only way for humans on Earth to have one centralized government is if our concept of the 'world' were to change somehow--for example, if we were thrust into an interplanetary relationship with several other races, that would unify our planet because it would only be a small part of the 'world' as a whole. We would then be a 'clan' unto ourselves and the cycle would repeat itself. This would also require rapid, global transportation (which would further decrease our concept of the size of the world).

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Actually, mine was no strings, I was just being facetious at the end tongue.gif

 

your secret love of Maplethorpe's art

 

biggrin.gif

 

I personally don't get the "clan" thing. I've never had that urge myself. Sure I want people around, but the idea of "belonging" to something to the exclusion of others doesn't gel with my sense of egalitarianism.

 

Hey, wait! There you go Knix, that's pretty anti-socialist biggrin.gif

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Good Job Bella!

Legalizing Mary jane for medicinal purposes! I dig it!

 

Sonic comes back with the every conservative view of "liking some country music". blink.gifblink.gif

 

Excuse me why I go out and salute the American flag. tongue.gif

 

Come on libs! You got not one but TWO neocons who have open up their darkest liberal tendencies! This social study is giving off better results then I thought.

 

 

 

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I think its more that Liberals hate conservative ideology more then conservatives hate liberal ideology. You don't find the answers above facinating? The all loving all encompassing Liberal ideology (or at least those who claim to be liberal) can't say ONE thing that may be conservative with adding. "But I also feel" or "Except when". Its hillarious.

And that in a nutshell my friends is why George Bush is President and Al Gore grew a beard and visited Europe...unemployed.

 

Ok I'll give ya all one more chance!

 

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Strawman eh? I got accused of that in a paper I wrote in College. She was just a T/A (Teacher's asst) so I told her to shove it...anywhoo......

 

How am I misscharacterizing your views ...IF I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOUR VIEW IS?

 

Holycow, if you don't feel that you have any views that you would characterize as conservative, just state so! Doesn't make you a bad person. But please no more verbal parachutes.

 

Sonic I beg you to read Ayn Rand. I am not being a wise guy, I am completely serious. If you are to ever discuss contrary views with someone please please read.

 

 

Atlas Shrugged

 

or

 

The Fountainhead

 

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer

 

wink.gif

 

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Strawman eh? I got accused of that in a paper I wrote in College. She was just a T/A (Teacher's asst) so I told her to shove it...anywhoo......

4015[/snapback]

 

Sounds like an Ad Hominem attack to me... whistle.gif

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Actually the T/A was a women not a man, thus it was not an Ad hominem attact smile.gif .

 

Ok back to our program......

 

Conservative's liberal beliefs so far...

 

1) That gay's should be allowed to server in the U.S. Military as long as they are physically able.

2) That medicinal Marijuana usage should be made fully legal.

 

Liberal's Conservative views...

 

1) Like the idea of small government (then claim it to be a now liberal trait)

2) Liken the need to be in a clan as that of a exclusitory, group, and socialist ideal, and thusly more left leaning....and he doesn't like that.

3) Some Country music is good, ( since the Dixie chicks are the poster girls for George Bush and his neocon views) blink.gif

4) Some talk about the future dealings with martians unifying the people of the world, and ( I presume) moving away from the conservative polarization that the left believes exists today. laugh.gif

5) Accusing me of not only using the dreaded straw-man argument, but then whipping out the even more nifarious Ad hominum attack! muwhahahahaha

 

People People...all I am asking for is one teensy weensy opposing view of your standard set of beliefs and moral position. No A then kinda B, or B ain't so bad if ya have some A in there. Just post one view like bella and I have done that we would never think of....

 

 

 

 

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Actually the T/A was a women not a man, thus it was not an Ad hominem attact  smile.gif .

4043[/snapback]

 

'An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.' It has nothing to do with gender whatsoever eek.png

 

This social study is giving off better results then I thought.

4043[/snapback]

 

It's readily apparent that you're starting out with the a conclusion and are gathering evidence to support it. In my opinion, I think that you're attempting to portray liberals as closed-minded, and I don't feel that the 'results' you've obtained are indicative of anything. I cannot speak for anyone else, but for me, my views make sense to me first, and are labeled by others later. I would never support a measure or a law just because so-called left-leaning people came up with it; nor would I denounce a similar measure if conservatives came up with it. You won't get any truly conservative viewpoints from me because I cannot think of even one that makes any sense to me or has any logical basis behind it. I think that liberals and conservatives are much more similar than they are different. We both want to be happy, provide a better life for our children, and to pursue whatever dreams we see fit to pursue. Perhaps you should restate the question. It seems clear that no answer thus far has been satisfactory...so maybe we should discuss issues that you feel that liberals and conservatives should work together on, and we can chime in from there...

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Word, Daybreak.

 

Instead of talking about ideas for a better world, I'd say let's take a look at the results on both sides. I'll start with a european "liberal" country, the Netherlands. I know it's a bit off-topic, but this will help you understand why I can't find no "conservative" idea :

 

An exemple : Smoking marijuana is legal. In France, it's not. Anyhow, we've got a lot more young people smoking drugs on a regular basis here in France. Scientists have not been allowed to even study the effects of marijuana until recently. It might be shocking, people can think that their kids are more likely to start smoking if they live in NL, but it is not true.

 

When I first read this thread, I was about to say that I believe we should control the internet a bit more in order to protect our children. Uh, in fact, we discussed this in "movie ratings" already : let's educate not only the children, but also their parents. Education has always given better results than repression. Sure, it costs more money and time.

 

Back to our example: children in NL are well aware of the problems caused by drugs; in France, they're not. Result: more people smoke in France. That's the only reason why. It's not cheaper here than in Amsterdam, it's twice more expensive, in fact.

 

As a short conclusion, I think people should be free to do almost what they want, unless it takes over other people's freedom. Is that the "liberalism" we're talking about, maybe? smile.gif Okay, in order to stay on topic next time, I'll try to find something "conservative", I swear wink.gif

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'An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.' It has nothing to do with gender whatsoever

 

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man". So while I understand what you meant by your accustation, you obviously did not get my gold medal winning sarcasm.

 

So you don't find it interesting at all that of all the responses given on this topic, only Bella's and my own have been non-conditional?

 

So from all this I can guess two things.

 

-A true liberal is a true liberal through and through, and any ideal that even hints of conservatism won't be touched with a 10 foot pole.

 

or

 

-Any admitance of honest views that differ from their general prose, will cause a liberals head to explode.

 

 

No wonder we are winning. laugh.gif

 

 

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What I do find interesting is how much you insist on trying to show that liberal people are not "honest" because they can't find anything conservative they would agree with. More simply, you could have entitled this thread "liberals are morons", since that's all you want us to know, it seems. wink.gif

 

Well, Bella and you have found 2 liberal things to defend. Good, it means we can keep on hoping! smile.gif

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