Nature vs. Nurture

[FzyBunnySliprs]

As Kitty said if one were born gay wouldnt we be all born gay?

Well KG, I agree that we are all entitled to our opinions. Society would be a pretty boring place if we all ran around like clones, thinking, talking & dressing the same way. I don't however think it is reasonable for a straight person to say that homosexuality is not the way you were born. How would you possibly know? You're not gay. Jeeze if that's your argument, shouldn't we all be born with a preference for brocolli over cauliflower?

[Kitty!]

Fuzzy, again, its a possibility, im not a doctor to confirm that having anal sex may cause colon cancer, i just watch TV and have heard it causes serious deceases. Ignorant? Call it all u want, at least im smart enough to understand mine says EXIT only. They can practice anal sex all they want, its their lives and if theyre enjoying, go ahead knock urself out, but im just saying anal sex is bad for ur health. As for being born gay, i dont think its possible. If it was genetically based, i would be gay, cause i have like 3 gay relatives. Being gay is a choice, lifestyle, preference. ETC. Which in fact i dont care. Just saying...

[P!NX]

And just in case someone starts shooting at me

 

Is it just me or is there really supposed to be a double meaning in this sentence dayni? lol j/k

 

Anyways, I fully support kitty's general opinion here that being gay is nothing natural or anything you are born with. Humans meaning of life is reproduction and that is not going to work with gay- or lesbian-love.

So if there is still people who "are born to be homosexual", then they have to be considered as nothing more than a fault of nature cause they cant fulfill humans destiny.

Edited September 19, 2007 by P!NX

[[FF5]Knix]

Oh boy, here we go again...a little research would be in order before making such rediculous statements. Click here

 

Just as the case with vaginal intercourse, anal intercourse would cause the same effect on the orafice in question.

What happens to the structure of a vagina from the time a women first has sex to the time say she has been with a man a few more times? The area becomes larger. Same would apply analy. I have a friend who worked in a a variety of social assistance originizations who deal with those from all walks of life who find themselves in a destitute situation. He mentioned that he would often deal with people who were permiscous in the gay community who had to resort to diapers as their anal wall was so stretched they could no longer control their bowels.

So it's not a stretch to suggest that other medical coplications would occur from the same behavior.

[Triggerhappy]

So it's not a stretch to suggest that other medical coplications would occur from the same behavior.

 

"not a stretch" ...nice pun KNIX lol j

 

Let's not forget that this is not just a problem with the homosexuals. There are many women who take it in the butt just as much if not more than guys. While I admit the the numbers are probably higher for gays, let's not forget that lots of heterosexuals like to do it to women...so does that make them plausible for discussion? Well, just something to think about.

Also, just because gays are commonly known for anal sex as we all know there are many ways of having sex besides just anal sex and I'm sure they practice them as well.

 

Anyways, I fully support kitty's general opinion here that being gay is nothing natural or anything you are born with.

 

Well I believe you, because I think if anyone in this topic would know more about it than anyone, it would probably be you.

[robert]

Well KG, I agree that we are all entitled to our opinions. Society would be a pretty boring place if we all ran around like clones, thinking, talking & dressing the same way. I don't however think it is reasonable for a straight person to say that homosexuality is not the way you were born. How would you possibly know? You're not gay. Jeeze if that's your argument, shouldn't we all be born with a preference for brocolli over cauliflower?

 

 

No no no Sue you misunderstand me....Im merely stating how is it we can say somone is born gay if we ourselves are not?

 

gayness is a choice of lifestyle. just like choosing to be a lawyer,choosing to live in the suburbs,etc. Somone doesnt not come out of the "hmhm" and choose to like guys or girls. It is the " natural" tendancy for a guy to like a girl...because in all walks of like the male is attracted to the female. Im just stating that if somone claims they were born gay I have a serious issue to take with that...We are are "born" the same....our mental disabilities happen when somthing occurs to the baby before they come out of the "hmmhmm" So how is it somone can state they were "born" gay because its not a mental immbalance. There have been no studies to back that theory yet there are countless that state it is a matter of CHOICE. Maybe its because you were nurtured more as a kid...maybe its because you feel you need to be "different"...the list goes on and on....there is nothing that says we come out of the "%&%*" gay. So its "inncorrect" or "wrong" to get the notion that it is a "birth" thing. as people experiance different things and have different problems...etc they over time choose to be "gay"

[{GD}Independent]

EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN OPINION OF WHATS RIGHT WRONG FAIR AND UNFAIR MORAL AND UNMORAL. It is not our place to judge them on the opinion.

 

And THAT's the problem with liberals. They CANNOT distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil, moral and immoral. Everything goes. I'm sorry to break it to you, but there IS a difference between right and wrong. It has nothing to do with opinion. I doubt you've read this whole thread to this point, so I'll just ask one question for you to respond to: Is it ok with you if a brother and sister, in adulthood, decide to live as husband and wife?

[FzyBunnySliprs]

i just watch TV and have heard it causes serious deceases.

And everything we see on tv must be true.

at least im smart enough to understand mine says EXIT only.

So now they are stupid?

but im just saying anal sex is bad for ur health.

As is smoking, drinking, caffine, red meat, salt, eggs, too much anything (including water). So why don't you condemn the whole human race while you are at it.

As for being born gay, i dont think its possible.

How would you possibly know, unless you were gay yourself?

If it was genetically based, i would be gay, cause i have like 3 gay relatives.

LMAO! And how many straight ones?

Being gay is a choice, lifestyle, preference. ETC.

AGAIN, HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY KNOW THAT?

 

[FzyBunnySliprs]

Anyways, I fully support kitty's general opinion here that being gay is nothing natural or anything you are born with. Humans meaning of life is reproduction and that is not going to work with gay- or lesbian-love.

So if there is still people who "are born to be homosexual", then they have to be considered as nothing more than a fault of nature cause they cant fulfill humans destiny.

 

So now we are being told what our destiny is? What about the people who are not able to have children? Should we euthanize them because they don't fit in to the master plan?

 

Hello people, wake up, most homosexuals fight themselves for years before coming to terms with being gay because they don't want to be different. They simply don't have a choice! It's who they are, and have always been.

[FzyBunnySliprs]

Im merely stating how is it we can say somone is born gay if we ourselves are not?

Fair statement, but how can you then suggest that homosexuals aren't born gay if you aren't gay? And what happened to your frontal lobe theory? You are talking in circles.

We are are "born" the same

Look around girlie, we are all actually very differnt, short/ tall, fat/skinny, blonde/brunette

....our mental disabilities happen when somthing occurs to the baby before they come out of the "hmmhmm"

Perhaps yours did...

 

Oh and BTW, thanks for admitting you are KG, that's the first step...you have 11 to go

[Triggerhappy]

And THAT's the problem with liberals. They CANNOT distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil, moral and immoral.

I'm sorry Indy, but I just can't get over this. How old are you dude, do you really think people can't distinguish between right and wrong/good and evil/moral and immoral? No indy, the problem is that when people whos opinions and views differ from yours you don't understand why and blame them for it. The problem is you do not know what "right" and "wrong"/good/evil/moral/immoral means. These are (let's say it together one more time folks) OPINION BASED WORDS Let's say it one more time for the people not listening: OPINION BASED WORDS which means the values/morals that define these words are different for each person depending on their point of view. Just because you don't think something is "right" doesn't mean someone else will see it that way, nor does it mean either person is "right" or "wrong" for that matter.

 

Everything goes.

 

Nobody ever said that besides you. Again, you are too single minded to understand other people's views that you don't comprehend there is more than one way to live life. (Jeeze, what a revelation)

 

It has nothing to do with opinion.

 

It has EVERYTHING to do with opinion. You can't support an opinion with an opinion, it just doesn't work that way. You have to give facts. While both sides of the argument thus far has very good points, nothing has been said here has changed my mind, as I'm sure the same goes vice versa.

 

Back to the comment about you saying "good" and "evil"...do you really think the world is black and white divided by a straight line (excuse the pun)? Well I'm sorry Indy but if you do then you really need to pull your head out and smell the coffee bro because news flash IT'S NOT! The whole point of America, land of the free is to have people with differences live harmoniously together, not make everyone be the same or live the same life styles because we don't understand theirs. I just hope you wake up before reality punches you in the face some day.

[robert]

Fair statement, but how can you then suggest that homosexuals aren't born gay if you aren't gay? And what happened to your frontal lobe theory? You are talking in circles.

 

Look around girlie, we are all actually very differnt, short/ tall, fat/skinny, blonde/brunette

 

Perhaps yours did...

 

Oh and BTW, thanks for admitting you are KG, that's the first step...you have 11 to go

I mean that we are born with the same general aspects and mental abilitites. A few "freak" things such a mental disabilities yes but are we gonna say 65% of america is a "freak" because they are gay. Back to my original statement YOU ARE NOT BORN GAY. its not possible...How could somone have a sexual preference based at Birth. At birth your brain can barley understand signs So how in the 'frell' are they supposed to understand a sexual preference? The frontal lobe theory merely SUGGESTS that it may have somthing to do with a blended line of "right' and "wrong" such as that of pedafiles and serial killers. Not saying homosexuals are serial killers or pedafiles...becuase 90% of them i meet are very kind loving people....Im stating that there lobe may have a more fuzzy line than the rest of us. We are all different because of genetics and listen to this....Genetic dieases are somthing that affect your health...Gay sexuality doesnt affect your health except for Knixs theory...lol. So therefore Gay cannot be a "genetics" thing because it doesnt affect your health.

[robert]

I'm sorry Indy, but I just can't get over this. How old are you dude, do you really think people can't distinguish between right and wrong/good and evil/moral and immoral? No indy, the problem is that when people whos opinions and views differ from yours you don't understand why and blame them for it. The problem is you do not know what "right" and "wrong"/good/evil/moral/immoral means. These are (let's say it together one more time folks) OPINION BASED WORDS Let's say it one more time for the people not listening: OPINION BASED WORDS which means the values/morals that define these words are different for each person depending on their point of view. Just because you don't think something is "right" doesn't mean someone else will see it that way, nor does it mean either person is "right" or "wrong" for that matter.

Nobody ever said that besides you. Again, you are too single minded to understand other people's views that you don't comprehend there is more than one way to live life. (Jeeze, what a revelation)

It has EVERYTHING to do with opinion. You can't support an opinion with an opinion, it just doesn't work that way. You have to give facts. While both sides of the argument thus far has very good points, nothing has been said here has changed my mind, as I'm sure the same goes vice versa.

 

Back to the comment about you saying "good" and "evil"...do you really think the world is black and white divided by a straight line (excuse the pun)? Well I'm sorry Indy but if you do then you really need to pull your head out and smell the coffee bro because news flash IT'S NOT! The whole point of America, land of the free is to have people with differences live harmoniously together, not make everyone be the same or live the same life styles because we don't understand theirs. I just hope you wake up before reality punches you in the face some day.

 

 

I(for one time in my life) completeley agree with Trigger here. Indy If a borther and sister want to go 'frell' each other brains out and get married that is THERE buisiness. Why is it that your(republicans) views make you Holier than thou...Why is it that we have to conform to what YOU believe to be right. Does interbreeding hurt YOU...not so why is it a problem....? can it cause mental disabilites, possibly but Our race has done it for thousands of years and yet no real harm has happend so let that argument go. Opinions are everything here in America. everyone has one and everyone has a different one. yes there is some conformity but everyone has the own "morals" and sense of "right and wrong" Just because you dont agree with it means little to nothing....Somthing ive tried to point out to people my whole life...most peoples opinions mean little to nothing. Yet there is that majority who believe there way is the only way and "im gonna shove it down your throat if you dont accept it" Its not ok for ANYONE to judge ANYONE. do we have opions about it YES just because we have an opionion does it mean its right NO. Indy you know i love you but this makes no sense dude. Its not ok to think that just because a mojority thinks somthing is right that thats the only way to go.

[robert]

And THAT's the problem with liberals. They CANNOT distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil, moral and immoral. Everything goes. I'm sorry to break it to you, but there IS a difference between right and wrong. It has nothing to do with opinion. I doubt you've read this whole thread to this point, so I'll just ask one question for you to respond to: Is it ok with you if a brother and sister, in adulthood, decide to live as husband and wife?

 

 

And yes Indy it is possible for liberals to Distinguish whats right and wrong...WE just dont believe we need to shove it down others throats...We all have our own sense of morality here...

 

 

 

and yes i did take a hour out of my day yesterday to read this topic through

[FzyBunnySliprs]

are we gonna say 65% of america is a "freak" because they are gay.

i'm not, are you?

Back to my original statement YOU ARE NOT BORN GAY.

Says the straight chic

The frontal lobe theory merely SUGGESTS that it may have somthing to do with a blended line of "right' and "wrong" such as that of pedafiles and serial killers.

So now gays are in the ranks with pedophiles and serial killers? Does anyone buy this?

 

 

KG, I think maybe you should quit while you're not ahead. What would your good friend think if she knew you were comparing her to pedophiles and serial killers? I'm guessing she wouldn't be impressed.

Edited September 20, 2007 by FzyBunnySliprs

[Kitty!]

Well Bunny, if u dont believe in the TV, why believe on the links of the internet? I can find very good info in the TV like in internet too. It seems like u like to change what im trying to say, but let me break it down to u...

I didnt say gay ppl were STUPID, ur sense of humor wont work with me, what i meant was that im smart enough to know what my behind was made for. Gay ppl wanna practice anal sex? WTH is their choice, they can do it if they want to. why? Cause life is about choices, everything u do is cause and effect, u have plenty of anal sex, later on health conditions will come. So again, if gay ppl or even straight ones like anal sex, then they dont care about the consecuences later, who knows, maybe even some of them dont even know the risks they exposed to. As for ur earlier post, saying the rest of bad things that can make u sick, cmon now, dont try to compare anal sex with smoking, or red meat. They dont have the same effects as having anal sex. Be more logical.

Gay relatives... Again, my face with ur kind of reply.

I have a gay friend myself, im very open to him of my opinions, he knows what i think about him being gay, theres nothing wrong with that, just because they ur friends, u dont have to hide what u feel. Just like them, they are gay, so they dont have to hide who they are, do i wish my friend was straight? Maybe. But its not about what i want, its what he wants, i still love him, cause i dont care if hes gay or not, hes my friend, so i accept him. Do i want my kids to be gay? NO, hell NO. I pray to God they dont, why? Cause i want the best for my kids, and before u come along and say, "so are u saying that ur kids being gay would be the worst thing for them?" Let me answer it, NO im not saying that, what im saying is that i want them to be able to be succesful, be healthy, marry, have kids, the way God meant it to happen. Its my beliefs, my way to view life, dont try to debate on it. Anyways, i respect gay ppl, because they humans like us, and they deserve respect like everyone else, but i still dont buy it, u cant be born gay.

 

[P!NX]

lol, has anyone read my signature?

 

My Opinion: I frikin hate gays, in my eyes they are just a "bug of nature" and should be banned from society and locked down in a dark cave where they can touch and **** each other as much as they want, without us "normal" people (atleast in sexual regard) having to watch them. ... You don't have to like it, cause it's MY opinion, no need to share!

[FzyBunnySliprs]

dont try to compare anal sex with smoking, or red meat. They dont have the same effects as having anal sex. Be more logical.

Oh, right. Sorry, the effects of smoking are far more dangerous than anal sex. Is that better?

the way God meant it to happen.

Ah, and here we see the problem. You think we should all have the same beliefs because we all have faith in the same God. Welcome to reality, not all of us believe in a God, let alone your God.

 

 

 

[Kitty!]

Which is why i S-T-A-T-E-D its my OPINION. My view of life, am i attacking u for not believing in God? NO, its ur dilemma and ur belief and honestly ur beliefs aint taking my sleep away. Anal sex is way diff than smoking cigarettes, i rather smoke like a chimney than to have some1 break my behind, and yes, once u practice that u can make ur anal opening bigger. Anal sex is nasty, period. I personally dont smoke or do anal sex, cause i care about myself a lot to degrade myself to that level. Should u care about this? NO, cause its my opinion and basically we both have diff ways to view things.

[robert]

i'm not, are you?

 

Says the straight chic

 

So now gays are in the ranks with pedophiles and serial killers? Does anyone buy this?

KG, I think maybe you should quit while you're not ahead. What would your good friend think if she knew you were comparing her to pedophiles and serial killers? I'm guessing she wouldn't be impressed.

 

 

you know damn well Sue that i said " the frontal lobe theory mereley suggests that gays may have a more "fuzzy" line of whats right and wrong sch as that of pedafiles and serial killers" Its not saying they are a serial killers but that they do have similar brain patterns.

 

and this is just regurgitating info here.They found that in that study the frontal lobe was a little larger than a "average" human. your frontal lobe develops as you develop. So again this is just one theory. Not a statment or fact.

Edited September 21, 2007 by robert

[Spacko]

Oh for heaven's sake are you two STILL on this? Could we possibly return to the topic at hand?

 

Now I don't know where the discussion has gotten stalled, but I can't imagine why some of you believe you know better than gay people why they turned out gay. And re something someone said many many pages of discussion ago: My childhood was happy and completely abuse-free, so I don't give much for the "gayness stems from abuse" theory.

 

- Synti

[Kitty!]

I think it depends on the ppl, cause i have heard cases of abused children who turn gay cause of the abuse, then again, its not the case with other ppl, i think theyre gay cause they like how they feel being gay, they just like who they are. What im having trouble with is believing gay is genetic.

[P!NX]

What im having trouble with is believing gay is genetic.

 

No need to have trouble, cause it's not genetic! Or why are "children" of gay parents never gay themselves?

[Kitty!]

LOL Thx for clearing that out to me

[Spacko]

Well I've never heard of any research on the sexuality of children of gay people, but if there is any that takes into account both nature (the sexuality of the parents/sperm/egg donor) and nurture that would certainly offer interesting insight. If anyone know of such studies, feel free to bring them forth. I'm not 100% sure what your point was Susie, but if you'd care to clarify and substantiate it, I'd be interested to hear it!

 

Still as long as there is no definitive research on this stuff, doesn't it make sense to believe that gay people know whether they have been gay from birth or only developed those feelings later? If someone's broken a leg, surely they know best how they broke it. If you're happy, you'll usually know why. All gay people I know are as intelligent and self-insightful as anyone else, and are surely very competent judges of their own psyche and condition.

 

Of course, as far as I'm concerned, nature vs nurture is a purely philsophical discussion, and whether it's genetic, environmental, chosen for kicks or some combination of these, the discussion should not affect or overshadow homosexuals' civil and legal rights or value and qualities as human beings. But if we need the discussion, it's rather absurd to not consider gay people the best source of insight into the gay mind.