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Knix' date='May 8 2007, 07:43 PM' post='71937']

Alexa-

 

Yes I agree. We should take all incentive to better themselves monitarily. How about we just create a global commune? There will be no leaders, or followers, no hierchy in acheivement.

 

Power to the people!

 

(goes to the shower, as is now dripping with sarcasm)

It's pretty easy, Herr Knixen. The society contract goes like this: I am born with nuttin, and I can reach everything. In case this contract is broken, I'm gonna break some rules myself. I'll get a big fat gun, and find myself a nice house which I will make unoccupied pretty fast. WHEN I have the feeling the unspoken unsigned contract is broken is mine, and may vary for different people. Working poor, the result of great neoliberal politics is good enough for me for example.

 

Apart from that, name 10 great inventions that made the inventor rich, and I name 100000 that didn't. So much for the "fruit of one's labour". I rather spend some effort citicising the perverted managers that steal billions instead of criticising the "evil" welfare-check-cashers. I'm a human being, not a money-making device thingy.

 

Stop dripping already! And check if it's really all sarcasm.

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Can I say F@ck it! This tread went no where. Trigger was right in some way, but this tread wasn't the right place to say.

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Ah common. At max 2 posts that are slightly :offtopic: . Better posts than no. We can always move them to "General > Communism". Gives the mods something to do.

 

My fault, I hit Knix' sensitive spot. If only I had known he loves Helmut so much.

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It's pretty easy, Herr Knixen. The society contract goes like this: I am born with nuttin, and I can reach everything. In case this contract is broken, I'm gonna break some rules myself. I'll get a big fat gun, and find myself a nice house which I will make unoccupied pretty fast. WHEN I have the feeling the unspoken unsigned contract is broken is mine, and may vary for different people. Working poor, the result of great neoliberal politics is good enough for me for example.

 

Apart from that, name 10 great inventions that made the inventor rich, and I name 100000 that didn't. So much for the "fruit of one's labour". I rather spend some effort citicising the perverted managers that steal billions instead of criticising the "evil" welfare-check-cashers. I'm a human being, not a money-making device thingy.

 

Stop dripping already! And check if it's really all sarcasm.

 

How is the contract broken where people cannot "reach everything"?

My father started with "nuttin" and became a multi-millionaire....and not by working 35 hours a week, 2 months vacation, etc.

 

You find it difficult to understand my displeasure in MY OWN COUNTRY with dead people being on the welfare rolls? Young mothers who can't keep their legs together and thus have 4 kids before the age of 24, for which they cannot provide but I partially do?

 

You don't need to be corrupt to be a capitalist. I am a succesfull businessman due to hardwork, honesty, and yes a little luck, not because of insider trading, missapropriation of funds, or incorrect figures in my accounting.

 

If you choose to live your life altruistically, and not want to work hard to better your lot in life, that is up to you. But when the rent bill, electric bill, school bills, etc, etc comes down the pike, try paying for them with your altruism. If that doesn't work, explain to the creditors that you are not a "money-making device thingy", and ask them to send the bill to one of us self sufficient suckers who work hard for a living.

 

 

Cooombayaaaa mah lorddddd. coombayaaaaaaaaa.

 

 

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Knix' date='May 8 2007, 08:44 PM' post='71941']

How is the contract broken where people cannot "reach everything"?

It is at least broken when people work their hands to the bone and can't feed their family. Can't even eat an apple because the tree is "owned" by somebody.

 

My father started with "nuttin" and became a multi-millionaire....and not by working 35 hours a week, 2 months vacation, etc.

Well, sounds like YOU had a good start in life? He "became" also involves quite certainly people paying for the services of your father. With money they have been working for also, prolly? Good thing this still works!

 

You find it difficult to understand my displeasure in MY OWN COUNTRY with dead people being on the welfare rolls?

Just what I said. 2 cheaters, the one stealing billions, impovering hard working people, the other stealing 400$ a month. Prevent both, but start with the first one.

 

Young mothers who can't keep their legs together and thus have 4 kids before the age of 24, for which they cannot provide but I partially do?

Well, that one I don't comment. Well, just kinda did.

 

You don't need to be corrupt to be a capitalist. I am a succesfull businessman due to hardwork, honesty, and yes a little luck, not because of insider trading, missapropriation of funds, or incorrect figures in my accounting.

I just long for a social market with fair conditions. True whiners? Companys. Our government is thinking about paying the wages for the workers even for big companys that are making huge profits. That is nothing but a perversion. I don't pretend capitalism is the root of all that's evil if you stop pretending that the world is made up of poor small businessman that are strangled by their useless employees.

 

If you choose to live your life altruistically, and not want to work hard to better your lot in life, that is up to you.

I work hard, long and near certainly do incredibly good work. My paycheck is no indication of this. And I know this holds true for my US collegues too.

Edited by Alexa
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It is at least broken when people work their hands to the bone and can't feed their family. Can't even eat an apple because the tree is "owned" by somebody.

I agree there are far too many people who work hard at what they do, and have little to show for it. Those are the people for whom the government should give aide. For those people I am refering to who don't work hard, who want the "J'oi de vivre" (sp?), with out paying dues to get it, that is what gets my irish up. Work-fare would indicate who is in the former group, and who is in the latter, and receive federal assistance accordingly. Craddle to Grave subsidies for breathing don't cut it with me.

 

Well, sounds like YOU had a good start in life? He "became" also involves quite certainly people paying for the services of your father. With money they have been working for also, prolly? Good thing this still works!

 

Yes I have had a good start. However i have also worked hard to sustain that lot, and increase it. I work frequently late hours here in the city, and don't see my kids a night. I consider myself a happily married weekend father. I do this not out of ego. I do this so I know that I will be able to provide whatever my family will need.

Yes those people who use my services worked for their money. I handle corporate travel for many famous people, who may have become famous/rich from hard work or through inheritance. I always just yesterday spent 1 hour of my time finding the cheapest possible way for a new employee of a client, who has been in the states for 6 months from india, having no credit history, little money, no driver's license, etc get away with his visiting family for a weekend up to Niagra falls, where I made zilch, and charged him nothing for my services. While I could have politlely suggested to him that I don't normally handle leisure travel, I decided to help him, as this person picked himself up, seperated from his family to come to new york for a job to try and better their lot in life. Even this little bit of help to make their visit together may help him on his way. So yes it works well when done right.

 

Just what I said. 2 cheaters, the one stealing billions, impovering hard working people, the other stealing 400$ a month. Prevent both, but start with the first one.

 

How about prevent both...at the same time?

 

 

Well, that one I don't comment. Well, just kinda did.

Very good, we can do that convo another time if you would like.

 

I just long for a social market with fair conditions. True whiners? Companys. Our government is thinking about paying the wages for the workers even for big companys that are making huge profits. That is nothing but a perversion. I don't pretend capitalism is the root of all that's evil if you stop pretending that the world is made up of poor small businessman that are strangled by their useless employees.

 

I agree, that is just as as5inine. What I know, and what I deal with,is how I have people stuck all over the world trying to do business a few times a year due to transit union strikes in Paris. But I'm sure they should understand the plight of the middle class French Bus driver, not wanting to drive an extra 5 hours a week, or face having to leave such laborious work with full benefits a few years later then he/she expected. Yes very fare indeed.

 

 

I work hard, long and near certainly do incredibly good work. My paycheck is no indication of this. And I know this holds true for my US collegues too.

 

 

I guess your paycheck would depend on the work you provide. If your work is specialized, is directly connected to a large amount of revenue for the people you supply, is limited in the amount of those who can do it, and in most circumstances is not for another person, then yes you should be compensated well.

 

If many people can do your job, does not bring in a lot of revenue for your company, or those you service, and you work for a company that you do not run, and are not responsible for, then there is a good chance that you are not compensated appropriately.

 

Your options?

1) Switch Companies

2) Go back to school, get a higher degree/higher training, make yourself more specialized

3) Change fields

4) do nothing, decide that the work you do is rewarding enough to forgo 1,2, or 3, and be happy with being paid what you are.

5) do the same as item 4, and complain that you are not appreciated, big blue is taking advantage of you, damn corporations, etc, etc, etc....and tell us all about it at Unityhq :)

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Yes I have had a good start. However i have also worked hard to sustain that lot, and increase it. I work frequently late hours here in the city, and don't see my kids a night. I consider myself a happily married weekend father. I do this not out of ego. I do this so I know that I will be able to provide whatever my family will need.

It's another story, but the question is if that is THE way to live. Many people are unemployed, number rising, the rest just works harder, usually for lesser money.

 

How about prevent both...at the same time?

I don't see politicians doing that. Bashing the weak is a lot easier.

 

But I'm sure they should understand the plight of the middle class French Bus driver, not wanting to drive an extra 5 hours a week,

It's ok that investor's money makes 20% each year, but compensation for the inflation of the worker's wages is not? Strike - IMHO - is the fight that should be preferred. The alternative I wrote a few posts above...

 

I guess your paycheck would depend on the work you provide.

And that may be the key here. Your guess is wrong. The trick is to use the magic word: globalisation. I'm not contra productivity, I have no problems with industrial automation. But saving money by enslaving abroad is, well, perversion again. So I prefer 5.

 

To be a bit on topic, I will certainly feel Mr. Sarkozy in my pocket. I don't like that.

 

What about:

6. Create an economic environment (e.g. by voting) that appreciates the human being, is fair and humane and environmental friendly thus leads to full employment

 

By the way, we use Carlson.

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All I asked for were some details! What do other countries do better? Can you name something PLEASE?

Just off the top of my head some random things that "other countries do better" is voting, oil, war, economies. Do I need to go on? Watch the vid, read my posts, it's all there sir. :)

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Just off the top of my head some random things that "other countries do better" is voting, oil, war, economies. Do I need to go on? Watch the vid, read my posts, it's all there sir. :)

ROFL! The funny thing is you are serious too!

 

Also, the video is about France....not other countries. I guess one thing France, Germany and Russia did better than the US was supply military parts, missles, bunkers, etc. to Iraq which was a clear violation of UN sanctions/embargo (in exchange for oil of course).

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All I asked for were some details! What do other countries do better? Can you name something PLEASE?

 

Well when the going gets tough, they run away. :lol:

 

Just off the top of my head some random things that "other countries do better" is voting, oil, war, economies. Do I need to go on? Watch the vid, read my posts, it's all there sir. :)

 

This is yet another example of why lions eat their young.

 

Knix' date='May 8 2007, 01:43 PM' post='71937']

While you are entitled to your opinion, can you actually answer our question and give an EXAMPLE of how France has the SH8* together.......since you've been there :D.

 

He can't.

 

 

Trig, could you perhaps name one country that offers its citizens a better opportunity for a free and prosperous life than the U. S. of A.? Please give details.

 

He cannot.

 

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ROFL! The funny thing is you are serious too!

 

Also, the video is about France....not other countries. I guess one thing France, Germany and Russia did better than the US was supply military parts, missles, bunkers, etc. to Iraq which was a clear violation of UN sanctions/embargo (in exchange for oil of course).

Ok, so we're supposed to excuse the fact that we've f#$^ed up the last two wars now because of incompetency and moronic presidents? If the US was smart, they would take the oil from Iraq before leaving. Instead, all that's probably going to happen is we'll pull out without the oil and we will have waisted lives and money for nothing. I have respect for other countries that exchange for their oil, but we have to steal ours.

 

...and lodingi, you're not even worth a reply because you can't comprehend what you read. :)

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By the way, we use Carlson.

 

 

Some of my best clients I took from Carlson Wagonlit, BTI World Travel, and American Express....through hard work....not handouts ;).

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ok, so we're supposed to excuse the fact that we've f#$^ed up the last two wars now because of incompetency and moronic presidents? If the US was smart, they would take the oil from Iraq before leaving. Instead, all that's probably going to happen is we'll pull out without the oil and we will have waisted lives and money for nothing. I have respect for other countries that exchange for their oil, but we have to steal ours.

Mistakes always have been and always will be made in war - people are not perfect and are prone to err. That said, I'm not sure who is trying to excuse anything.

 

The point is that the United Nations came up with a pile of resolutions for Iraq that restricted trade between Iraq and any UN member country. No UN country was supposed to violate these restrictions; however, France, Germany and Russia (the countries you say you have "respect" for their oil exchange policies) completely disregarded the trade sanctions. They helped Iraq rebuild their military by trading high tech weapons and parts for oil and by trading cash for oil.

 

Not sure what you comment "but we have to steal ours" is referring to...can you explain? This sounds like a contradiction because you said that if the US were smart, they would take the oil from Iraq....implies stealing yes?

 

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They helped Iraq rebuild their military by trading high tech weapons and parts for oil and by trading cash for oil.

Okay, and who do you think originally gave them weapons? USA.

Not sure what you comment "but we have to steal ours" is referring to...can you explain? This sounds like a contradiction because you said that if the US were smart, they would take the oil from Iraq....implies stealing yes?

Sorry for the confusion RXS, but when I said "but we have to steal ours" I was referring to the fact that we have to start wars (not star wars) to obtain our oil. However, I don't see that we're actually going to receive the amount we should from this war in Iraq basically leaving empty(er) handed. Although I don't admire it, if we're going to f*&) another country up we should at least stick to that plan of stealing the oil. Perhaps then our enemy might respect us a little more...and we'd have more oil.

 

The fact of the matter is, I realize that other countries are as screwed up (if not more) than the US, but that's not my original argument. So to stay ON TOPIC, let me reiterate my original point: France has many qualities that do in fact rain supreme over ours. That's it, I never said that I thought France or Europe in general is better than the USA but simply that we have no room or right to criticize other countries, especially at this point in time. :)

 

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The point is that the United Nations came up with a pile of resolutions for Iraq that restricted trade between Iraq and any UN member country. No UN country was supposed to violate these restrictions; however, France, Germany and Russia (the countries you say you have "respect" for their oil exchange policies) completely disregarded the trade sanctions. They helped Iraq rebuild their military by trading high tech weapons and parts for oil and by trading cash for oil.

I know it's repeat myself but: this has long been proven a lie. Most notably in the original source it was stated that there have been found huge amounts of British weapons. Seems some news sources just don't report it all, to make sure you don't decide "wrong".

 

And the No. 1 weapons deliverer for the Iraq was of course the U.S. (the biological weapons that were turned against some Iraqis) represented by Mr. Rumsfeld.

U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup

There is a better and most of all more up-to-date source about a hearing of the British Government where some politician-weasles admit that they knew this but didn't want to "hurt" their partner (US) in war. Sorry can't find it by now.

 

Near the whole world equipped the Iraq although they all knew about Mr. Saddam.

 

Anyway, when Mr. Sarkasy has finished his 'lil trip to the Bahamas I'm sure he'll find the time to abolish unions, increase the working hours and lower capital taxes etc. in order to maximize company profits. The common idea is: more profit, more jobs. Doesn't work here, didn't in GB (low-wage jobs spawned, full paid jobs were converted), but I'm keen to see if it will work in France.

Afterwards he may think about building a huuuuuuge hot tub into his basement, because there just isn't a better place for deciding the fate of the average Frenchi then in a hot tub toghether with a lot of lobbyists and service ladies.

Edited by Alexa
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France has many qualities that do in fact rain supreme over ours. That's it, I never said that I thought France or Europe in general is better than the USA but simply that we have no room or right to criticize other countries, especially at this point in time. :)

 

You keep saying this have not produced a single example to prove yourself. If your point was to prove your ignorance, you've done a fabulous job.

 

 

Okay, and who do you think originally gave them weapons? USA.

 

Sorry but U.S.A. does not produce:

 

AK47 machine guns

T-72 battle tanks

MIG fighter jets

SCUD missiles

 

any others?

 

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Knix' date='May 9 2007, 07:30 PM' post='71975']

I guess this is just due the vast amount of fast food chains currently available in the former group.

Not completely sure what you're trying to say but I guess I tend to agree with you. Swiss, by the way, has anything but a flexible job market, low wages and an overall liberal market.

 

I mean Germany struggles with minimum wage (=we don't have such).

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It's no secret that we were building up Iraq - we wanted Iraq to be our ally shortly after the Shaw took over Iran (Iran used to be a strong ally prior to the overthrow). Hussein turned out to be a wacko and too unstable to be much of an ally.

 

And Alexa, there is a paper trail that implicates France, Russia and Germany.....so don't be so quick to say it has long been proven false....it depends on where you pull your info.

Edited by RXS
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Sorry but U.S.A. does not produce:

 

AK47 machine guns

Not for discussion, just for the sake of completeness: US AK-47 manufacturers

 

And Alexa, there is a paper trail that implicates France, Russia and Germany.....so don't be so quick to say it has long been proven false....it depends on where you pull your info.

There is more than a paper trail I reckon. The official UN report - I believe and am to lazy to look it up - states that companies from that countries, including US and UK breached the 90 UN embargo. It also states AFAIK that "suspicious, military important parts" had been delivered. The Iraq was massively equipped in the 70-80, guess Saddam didn't need so much more in the 90s. But talking about things past, lets take a look at the world's hot spots: usual suspects earning a lot, nobody cares - till next war.

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Not completely sure what you're trying to say but I guess I tend to agree with you. Swiss, by the way, has anything but a flexible job market, low wages and an overall liberal market.

 

I mean Germany struggles with minimum wage (=we don't have such).

 

Uh..okaayy. I'm trying to say that unemployment level in the top 3 nations I listed, is significantly lower then those in the bottom 3. But in truth, the population of Hong Kong and Switzerland is quite small in comparrison, yet they deal heavily in finance, thus most citizens to comparitively well.

 

Here are some more tidbits, how the US is not struglling en masse due to bs jobs deflating the employment rates (alla the USSR back in the day)..

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...P%29_per_capita

 

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Knix' date='May 9 2007, 08:56 PM' post='71981']

Here are some more tidbits, how the US is not struglling en masse due to bs jobs deflating the employment rates (alla the USSR back in the day)..

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...P%29_per_capita

Nothing to argue about there, but I'm not sure about the reasons for that. I believe for a solid economy you need more than a liberal job market and long working hours. Ideas like Sarkozy's didn't help GB and Germany. I'm honestly interested in seeing what is gonna happen to France.

 

Also interesting are numbers about poverty. I don't claim they look bad!

Edited by Alexa
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You keep saying this have not produced a single example to prove yourself. If your point was to prove your ignorance, you've done a fabulous job.

You stupid mofo, I listed the reason as a video response to save typing and redundancy. The video was supposed to get my points across better than typing. If you didn't watch the vid, then you didn't see the reasons sh&* for brains.

 

I'll even save you a couple of clicks by REposting it right here:

 

QUOTE('lodingi')

Please enlighten us.

 

 

EVERYONE watch this video, he explains my point better than I ever could!

CLICK HERE

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