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[TNT] Sonic Goo

What is art?

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Oh boy...

 

IMHO this is art...

 

IPB Image- VeemerIPB Image RembrandtIPB Image Rockwell

 

IMHO this is NOT art...

 

IPB Image "Dung Art"

IPB Image Andy Warhol (I took graphic Arts in HS)

IPB Image Jakson Pollack (Looks like the mess my 5 year old made during lunch on Saturday)

IPB Image Jean Michel Basquiat

IPB Image

 

 

My mother is an artist. Before she met my father she had many exibitions both in Europe and in the U.S. She studied the ecole du Louvre in Paris. Her art is a little impressionalistic for my tastes, however i can study and practice from now till I was 100, and not come close to touching her works. That is a major part of what makes art to me. Now art of course means different things to different people. Many people would find the works shown in my 2nd grouping to be art. To me, its more of a "anti-art". Fads in art come and go, just as in cuisine, fashion, music, etc. Art to me has to be something that makes me say "wow". Art to me is not something that was caused by my elbow knocking over a bowl of soup. Art to me is a learned craft who's purpose is to teach, inspire, promote thought. While some items again in my 2nd grouping may promote thought, and may make a person say "wow", it is in my eyes..

 

1) Plagerism

2) Blind Rebellion (over talent)

3) Temporary

4) easily acheivable

5) What Big Mac's are to Cuisine, Spandex to Fashion, and Eddie Murphy is to music.

 

 

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Take back what you said about spandex! Everything else I agree with. Ha ha!

 

Foam pieces glued to canvas is crap.

 

Something has to have a certain amount of fine detail and effort put into it's creation before it can be considered art in my opinion also. Otherwise, it would be like throwing a box of dishes down a stairwell and calling it music.

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This 'masterpiece' is also no art...

IPB Image

Kazimir Malevich - The Black Square (Chernyj Kvadrat)

no need to post it it bigger i think :D

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KNIX, you said it all perfectly, I agree with you 100%. I was an art major in college and hated doing the abstract art projects. They did not require much effort and I felt like it was a bunch of hooey when we all stood around critiquing each others works and saying what 'feelings' we got from them. Needless to say I didn't get a great grade in that class. :P

 

I love it that you included Norman Rockwell in your pictures. I love that man's talents. Not only does he paint well but he really can evoke an emotion with his paintings.

 

 

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I was going to post that too GDI along with some works of Maplethorpe of men performing fellatio on each ofther but then thought better of it :P.

 

Bella- Rockwell is my favorite artist. But as art is in the eye of the beholder, my mother thinks his work to be boring. She feels that he is a good "illustrator" not an artist. His works (to her) look too much like a photograph. Of course my mother is crazy, and we argue about art all the time.

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To me, art is not craft. Art is that which is more than craft. Art is not what is learned but that what is developed. Craft is skillfulness, it's repeating what the teacher told you. Art is something you come up with that moves things further. People tend to resist that because it doesn't fit in with everything else they were taught is art - but that's exactly why it is art. It's also in another way - to enrage people, to make them think about what it means, about what is art is also something that makes it art.

 

When Rembrandt came up with his clair-obscur style of painting it was too far ahead of hi time - he never sold much and famously died in the poor house. But what he did was revolutionary and idiosyncratic. He did something never seen before. And this is an important part of art: innovation. If someone would paint in Rembrandt's style now, it would not be art. We've been there, done that.

 

This is why Rockwell's work is often not considered art. Both his style and substance are too cliche'd to be considered art. Some of what are considered his best works are also his most rebellious, his most controversial, like this one:

IPB Image

 

The Ofili painting labeled 'Dung Art' is a typical case of culture shock. Chris Ofili is an African Englishman. In his work he tries to reconcile his African background with his English identity. In this case he combined a Western fertility symbol (Mary, mother of Christ) with African fertility symbols (elephant dung), to create a cross-cultural superfertilitysymbol. (He also uses other unusual materials, such as glitter, gold paint, etc.) I like the way he combines African and Western influences and the textures of his unusual materials. Here's another of his works:

IPB Image

 

Andy Warhol was a graphic designer early in his career, his style very reminiscent of Toulouse Lautrec. He then put those skills to use in his art, with a subject matter very reminiscent of Duchamp. This, in turn, influenced graphic design again and so the circle is round. His use of colours, repetition and his printing technique have been so influential, the world would look quite different without him. Nolfers and monkeys should appreciate his nana works:

IPB Image

 

Jackson Pollock's work is deceptively simple - with the emphasis on deceptive. Also, if your five year old would try to recreate a Pollock, there'd still be the originality principle - he was there first. It's like this poem by Jan Hanlo called De Mus (The Sparrow). It goes:

 

De Mus

 

Tjielp tjielp - tjielp tjielp tjielp

tjielp tjielp tjielp - tjielp tjielp

tjielp tjielp tjielp tjielp tjielp tjielp

tjielp tjielp tjielp

 

Tjielp

etc.

 

Everyone says 'Well, I could've come up with that'. But, strangely, until 1949 nobody had. The same goes for the willfully naive and childlike painting style of Basquiet - though the CoBrA group did it earlier and better, like Karel Appel:

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(Btw - try to have a five year achieve the same kind of expression, balance and composition - it's more sophisticated than it looks.)

 

Don't know the last one, so I'll move on.

 

Phantizen, are you referring to that artist who makes really deep blue paintings with spongelike stuff on it whose name I can't come up with right now?

 

Also, you should go see the Einsturzende Neubauten - they make music by emptying buckets of pebbles, banging pipes and wires, using two stroke engines, and, like, stuff

IPB Image

 

Seemann, the idea behind modernism was that art had become too much about glorifying kings, kaisers and czars (not very popular after WWI) and boring boring landscapes. So they wanted to reduce the art of painting to the very basics; lines and primary colours so that art would be for the people and not the elite. Then the Soviets (supposedly of the people) cracked down on it and now abstract art is seen as elitist. Ironic, eh?

 

Hey Indy, do you happen to have Metallica's Load album? :)

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Sonic Goo' date='Jul 10 2006, 02:11 PM' post='62562']

Jackson Pollock's work is deceptively simple - with the emphasis on deceptive. Also, if your five year old would try to recreate a Pollock, there'd still be the originality principle - he was there first. It's like this poem by Jan Hanlo called De Mus (The Sparrow). It goes:

 

De Mus

 

Tjielp tjielp - tjielp tjielp tjielp

tjielp tjielp tjielp - tjielp tjielp

tjielp tjielp tjielp tjielp tjielp tjielp

tjielp tjielp tjielp

 

Tjielp

etc.

 

Everyone says 'Well, I could've come up with that'. But, strangely, until 1949 nobody had.

 

Hey Indy, do you happen to have Metallica's Load album? :)

 

 

I know you took the time to write more then what I quote above, however the rest is really one of those things that is tough to dispute or agree with. Art comes down to the individual at the end of the day. I chose the quote above as it reminds me of a comedian who said "The following sentence will be the first time in the history of man, that you will here these words put together in this sequence....I'm quite bored today, I think I will cut off my penis, and stuff it in a fox hole." Now while verbal (yet graphic), and not visual art, does the comedian get credit of providing art in expression as strangely until that very moment no one every put those words together in a sentence? I think the standards of the appreciator of art should be a little more refined that that. But again what I find substandard, you may find revolutionary. What I may see perfection, you may find to be "vanilla". Thus is art then..

 

Last part...

 

IPB Image (-not my style of art, but gets bonus points for being the greatest band in the history of Hard Rock/Metal. :D

 

That being said, their "Black Album" cover...

 

Is shite no matter who it represents..

 

IPB Image

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Knix' date='Jul 10 2006, 01:15 PM' post='62558']

I was going to post that too GDI along with some works of Maplethorpe of men performing fellatio on each ofther but then thought better of it :P.

 

Bella- Rockwell is my favorite artist. But as art is in the eye of the beholder, my mother thinks his work to be boring. She feels that he is a good "illustrator" not an artist. His works (to her) look too much like a photograph. Of course my mother is crazy, and we argue about art all the time.

 

Yeah, I tried to find a Maplethorpe that was not too nasty to post, but that still illustrated what was "not art."

 

Here's something funny: I like Monet. I know, I know, that's like a person saying "sure, I like wine! My favorite is white zinfandel!"

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Sonic Goo' date='Jul 10 2006, 02:11 PM' post='62562']

 

 

De Mus

 

Tjielp tjielp - tjielp tjielp tjielp

tjielp tjielp tjielp - tjielp tjielp

tjielp tjielp tjielp tjielp tjielp tjielp

tjielp tjielp tjielp

 

Tjielp

etc.

 

In this case he combined a Western fertility symbol (Mary, mother of Christ) with African fertility symbols (elephant dung), to create a cross-cultural superfertilitysymbol.

 

 

 

 

In both cases, I call BULL$h17!!!!

 

lkjsdlfkjsdlkjasdlkjasdlkjasdlkjsdlkjasdlfkjsdflkjsdflkiweoiuweroiuweoiwueroiuweroiu34o097830498304598304eropikjsdljksdlkjsdflkj

 

Is that art simply because no one has ever typed it before? Clearly not!!!!!!

 

I like a lot more art (and define a broader range of things as art) thank knix, but I draw the line at stuff that's simply not artistic. F*** Jackson Pollack. and mappelthorpe. and the dung guy. just idiots trying to get noticed.

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Independent' date='Jul 10 2006, 11:53 PM' post='62584']

 

 

lkjsdlfkjsdlkjasdlkjasdlkjasdlkjsdlkjasdlfkjsdflkjsdflkiweoiuweroiuweoiwueroiuweroiu34o097830498304598304eropikjsdljksdlkjsdflkj

 

Is that art simply because no one has ever typed it before? Clearly not!!!!!!

 

 

sorry to break this to you GDI however if you evrey took the time to visit the FF5 forums, you would have known that your cominationof letters and numbres above actualy was done exactly as shown by Leftnut first, then copied later by Gomad, and Bahamut Zero. So by Goo's definition, Nut is the true artist of nonsensical jibberjabber :D.

 

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I don't agree with some Goo's points.... New doesn't automatically mean good and good doesn't have to be new....

I think that if every artist had to create new style to be considered real artist painting would just disappear. The aim of art i think is to provide some thought, some sense to the viewer AND make him admire. u can do it with different styles(not all of them, IMO). People should look more on ewhat's painted, and only than how it's painted. So, who can say what is depicted here?

 

IPB Image

 

and now here

 

IPB Image

 

Lines, squares, etc make sense only for the one who painted them. Others either have no thought looking at them, or everyone has his own thought... That's not right i think.

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You're right when you say that new is not always good, Seeman. But is it bad if everyone has a different thought while looking at a picture, sculpture, etc? After all, it's not because we SEE the same thing, such as this row of three knights in armor you posted, that we necessarily have the same THOUGHT meanwhile.

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Quite right, but i think that the painting should represent something particular, so that people would understand what THE AUTHOR wanted to say, and of course may have different thoughts about it. I think many futuristical painters dont realize what they want to say by themselves :)

 

P.S. I think everyone have same thoughts looking at this Duchan's 'sculpture'. {I wanna pee...}

IPB Image

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Knix' date='Jul 11 2006, 01:01 AM' post='62586']

sorry to break this to you GDI however if you evrey took the time to visit the FF5 forums, you would have known that your cominationof letters and numbres above actualy was done exactly as shown by Leftnut first, then copied later by Gomad, and Bahamut Zero. So by Goo's definition, Nut is the true artist of nonsensical jibberjabber :D.

 

Great. Now, in addition to being an "art" - hating cretin, you can add plagiarist to my list of failings. :(

 

 

 

IPB Image

 

Lines, squares, etc make sense only for the one who painted them. Others either have no thought looking at them, or everyone has his own thought... That's not right i think.

When I see the above painting, I think, "Cool, some knights." When Gen sees it, he thinks, "Mon Dieu! Vee surrender!"

 

I am so sorry, Genesis. Please realize that I could no more stop my fingers from typing that joke than I could prevent my lungs from drawing their next breath. I hope you understand it's done in friendship?

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1.

IPB ImageMissing piece to a Monopoly Set

 

2.

IPB ImageAquarium, or old prop from the Movie "Jaws"

 

3.

IPB ImageArt

 

4.

IPB Image

fumigation due to the effects of the deadly 3 eyed locust.

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I can always count on you to sum things up in a frank manner, KNIX. The best part is I agree with you completely. :D

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When I see the above painting, I think, "Cool, some knights." When Gen sees it, he thinks, "Mon Dieu! Vee surrender!"

 

I am so sorry, Genesis. Please realize that I could no more stop my fingers from typing that joke than I could prevent my lungs from drawing their next breath. I hope you understand it's done in friendship?

 

:D This one gave me a good laugh, Indie.

 

And yep, I don't like Cristo's work that much, but for once I like these trees. They should remind us gamers something, no? Yeah, old 3D trees :) Well, at least he didn't ruin some monument. I can't say I don't LIKE his work, to be honnest. I can't understand it, and think it's, most of the time, absolutely pointless.

 

Now, I want the answers to Goo's quizz!

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Well, first I think I should explain the Load cover reference. It's by the same artist as the 'Piss Christ' photo above. In the case of Load, it's a mixture of sperm and blood. Serrano is someone who finds beauty in what's considered dirty, untouchable, taboo. Corpses, Ku Klux Klan members, pimps, boy scouts, postal workers. I don't think he actually cares about the subject at all, just about the resulting picture. Here's an interview with him about his Klan photo's and the 'Piss Christ' controversy.

 

And now... the quiz:

 

1. This is a work by Jeff Koons. What Warhol did with basic everyday objects, Koons does with kitsch. He takes things that are generally considered banal, worthless junk ('kitsch' literally means garbage) and turns them into art. (He also does the same with porn, together with his former pornstar/politician ex-wife Cicciolina - which I won't show here.) Here is some more of his work:

 

IPB Image

IPB Image

IPB Image

 

2. is by Damien Hirst, prominent Brit Art artist. Don't really know much about the how or why, so I'll just stick to the pictures:

 

IPB Image

IPB Image

IPB Image

 

3. This is a bit of a mean one. It's by an Austrian painter who was famously rejected by the Viennese art academy. He then went into politics, started a wold war, systematically killed some 10 million people and spent his honeymoon in a ditch on fire. I like that last work best. So Indy may think Christo is a moron, I'd say this guy is a bit worse.

 

4. The last one is indeed by Christo, the man who likes to wrap things up. And I'd have to disagree with Genesis. He doesn't damage anything. In fact he preserves it for a while, shields it from the elements. He sheds new light something you've seen thousands of time before. And when he's done the work may be gone, but there's always the documentation which he sells to finance his next projects.

 

IPB Image

IPB Image

IPB Image

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Nope, just not what I consider 'art'. None of them. I simply cannot imagine them being remembered as great art masters centuries from now. If they are, well then I'm glad I won't be alive to see it.

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While Adolf may have been a bastard sonofabeeotch, who should burn in eternal hell....he sure had a way with water colors!

 

The rest is tripe. Different does not equal good. Like Bella said, these other artists will have no staying power. In 100 years no one will remember them or their works. Adolf inspite of his artistic talents will be remembered for other things...

 

 

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