ONYX Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 hey Caip........you found your way back here just in time for this riviting post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 This thread is about "who did more for the victory in WW2". I've tried to come up with several ways of measuring this, based mostly on things mentioned in this discussion. In most of those, the Soviet Union comes out as most important contributor. If you know a better way of determining this, please enlighten us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[FF5]Knix Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Sonic Goo' date='Apr 3 2006, 02:41 PM' post='45741'] This thread is about "who did more for the victory in WW2". I've tried to come up with several ways of measuring this, based mostly on things mentioned in this discussion. In most of those, the Soviet Union comes out as most important contributor. If you know a better way of determining this, please enlighten us. Thats the point, there is no way to determin it, as this is totally subjective. Without the Soviets the Germans would have been much more successfull. Without the Americans, the Germans would have occupied all of Western Europe. The Soviets lost more people in battle due to trying to defend a huge border, with inferior weaponry. Remember the Soviets did not participate in WW1 after just under a year of battle, as they had a Revolution. The Americans upon their entrance into WW1 found themselves in a very similar situation as did the SOviets in WW2. A big country with significant resources, which lacked both Modern (at that time) weaponry and training to fight a modern war. We had to learn on the fly during WW1 (Under General Black Jack Pershing), as did the Soviets during WW2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Not to mention that there was incredible losses to both the Russian and the German armies due to extreme cold weather exposure and lack of food. That factors into the numbers as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factor Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 goo, an option u came up with was who lost the most people? that was retarded (sorry to offend)... but in all honesty... if u lost a lot of people...there is a few things it shows me, but DEFINATLY not that u did the most to win the war... it shows me that... 1) your guys need to learn how to shoot better 2) u should probably have trained a little better 3) get the civilians OUT of the cities where there is war going on. the question was which country did more for the victory... well, i think everyone here will agree with me, that if USA did not jump into the war, it probably would have continued going A LOT longer, and maybe Hitler mighta gotten up enough power for one last dance...(i dunno, im not that big of a history buff, thats RXS's thing)...but RXS, i am right in saying that if USA didnt hop in, the war woulda continued lots longer right? its not even a fair comparison because USA didnt have any fights on our land outside of Pearl Harbor. So OF COURSE we didnt lose too many civilians, and our soldiers we didnt lose a lot, b/c they are a very well trained army. (not saying these others wernt, but they were throwing kids out to war, that had never even seen a gun before, and no training at all...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 the question was which country did more for the victory... well, i think everyone here will agree with me, that if USA did not jump into the war, it probably would have continued going A LOT longer, and maybe Hitler mighta gotten up enough power for one last dance...(i dunno, im not that big of a history buff, thats RXS's thing)...but RXS, i am right in saying that if USA didnt hop in, the war woulda continued lots longer right? I think you are probably right Factor...it was imperative that the allies pull out all the stops and form a united front against the Nazi war machine. Hitler made a tactical mistake in trying to take Russia/Stalingrad at all costs. He allowed his war machine to be spread out thus providing the allies with an opportunity in the ETO. Several Panzer divisions stormed through much of Russia but were forced into submission by extremely cold winters (some of the coldest on record). The Nazi's covered so much ground so quickly, it weakened their supply lines...which were also further strained by Russian counter offensives during the winter months. Also, US bombers were bombing the hell out of their oil depots (which by the way - many Nazi military officials say had the greatest negative effect on their war machine and provided the crippling blow the Allies needed to stop the Wermacht) on all fronts. I think one of the most notable reasons why Russia was able to stop the Germans is because while Hitler dismissed the council of military advisors (he had some of the best and well seasoned veterans the world had seen at the time), Stalin learned to trust his. I say he learned to trust them because Stalin as a military commander was a dismal failure at first. His best advisor was Marshal Georgy Zhukov who proved himself in the field and at the strategy table. Had Hitler listened/trusted his Generals, the war might have lasted for several more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 The idea of 'doing more' meaning sacrificing more people was one brought up in this discussion, so I thought I'd address it. Remember the Soviets did not participate in WW1 after just under a year of battle, as they had a Revolution Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factor Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 another thing i remember hearing about Hitler... i think one of my history teachers was making a bunch of comparisons on him and napoleon. and how hitler followed a lot of what napolean did, and made a lot of big mistakes, like getting taken over by russia's weather... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[FF5]Knix Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Sonic Goo' date='Apr 4 2006, 03:29 AM' post='45859'] The idea of 'doing more' meaning sacrificing more people was one brought up in this discussion, so I thought I'd address it. Remember the Soviets did not participate in WW1 after just under a year of battle, as they had a Revolution Huh? What part of the sentence confused you Goo? My point I was trying to make, was that the US in WW1 had learn to fight a "modern war" via soldier training, as well as production of modern weaponry. We got into that war late, and were forced to play catch up, and modernized our armed forces. Russia in 1914/15 after months of fighting versus Germany and Austria-Hungarian Empire had the Bolshivik revolution. Germany seizing on the opportunity signed a treaty with Russia, gained some land, and Russia went on their merry way. I feel that if Russia would have stayed in the WW1, they too would have been forced to modernize their armed services, and would have benefitted from this when WW2 rolled around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Thing is, I thought the Russian revolution was in 1917... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seemann Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) . Edited August 15, 2014 by Seemann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[FF5]Knix Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 You're right it was 1917, but I think the argument still holds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seemann Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) . Edited August 15, 2014 by Seemann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowitzerAL Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 You won't understand the connection, but i want someone to answer[Without CALCULATOR ]. How much is 2+2*2 (dunno whether you have same signs, * means 'times') Hey Seeman, find someone else to do your homweork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seemann Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) . Edited August 15, 2014 by Seemann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 You won't understand the connection, but i want someone to answer[Without CALCULATOR ]. How much is 2+2*2 (dunno whether you have same signs, * means 'times') 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seemann Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) . Edited August 15, 2014 by Seemann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[FF5]Knix Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 mmmm I woulda been wrong too. NEver was good at math though...being lefthanded Are you trying to mock the US Seeman? I got some funny stories during my stay in Russia, i'm sure you would enjoy if you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Nahh! Didn't getcha. One russian writer just wrote that american professor answered him that it was 8. An American professor of what? Sociology? Home Economics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seemann Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) . Edited August 15, 2014 by Seemann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggy Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I tell yah! Denmark did the best job during WWII. We were occupied, but we still did a great job bashing the germans, if we compare our forces with e.g. the soviet army! bella, will you pls buy me some Carlsberg beer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[FF5]Knix Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I tell yah! Denmark did the best job during WWII. We were occupied, but we still did a great job bashing the germans, if we compare our forces with e.g. the soviet army! bella, will you pls buy me some Carlsberg beer? Yeah but your crazy bus drivers killed Cliff Burton! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belladonna Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Okay, cheese and beer are added to the list. Anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factor Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 seemann, that math problem, was dumb... i cant say most, but i know i woulda messed up on it, and knix admitted he would have... but truth is, i can almost garuntee if u saw that on a math test, u woulda guessed it wrong too if u didnt read about it... the human mind just works like that, it tricks it... so by doing that u are tryin to prove American's "stupid"...when really, almost anyone, in any country, could miss that on any given day, if they dont really think about it. a problem that small and simple just seems that way... and b/c OMG!...one american professor messed up...i guess that means all american professors are stupid? thats just dumb... i garuntee u they gave that same problem to a bunch of other professors that got it right, and the one that didnt, gets attacked, and then u people, trying to make yourselves feel better, try to call our whole country stupid, just b/c we are a powerful nation... dont u guys have anything better to do with your time? go read a book or somethin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seemann Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 (edited) . Edited August 15, 2014 by Seemann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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