Surak Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Knix' date='Feb 4 2006, 05:33 PM' post='30138'] Good way to be stopped being called terrorists...is by not doing this... I agree with you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacko Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Norwegian embassy in Damascus has been burned to the ground... Protestors were last seen walking towards the French embassy 9 km away. w00t. KNIX why aren't American newspapers printing those cartoons? I find that surprising. Anyhow I believe that freedom of speech isn't worth anything unless it also counts for saying (or drawing!) the things that others do not like. And all this crap about respect? Bah. Respect for human beings is fine, but demanding everyone's respect for your god is ridiculous. God is on his own. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jylland...ad_drawings.jpg I did however find the drawings on Wikipedia again. Whew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 why aren't American newspapers printing those cartoons? I find that surprising. Because they aren't funny....j/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surak Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Anyhow I believe that freedom of speech isn't worth anything unless it also counts for saying (or drawing!) the things that others do not like. You do know the french and german goverments asked google to filter search results to white pride websites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[FF5]Knix Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 KNIX why aren't American newspapers printing those cartoons? I find that surprising. Because our Government sees this as an opportunity to earn some favor with the Middle East, by speaking out against it, with the "however we vigorously support freedom of speech" quote at teh same time. I'm not happy about it. CNNBC showed them on a televised story of the situation, but they are the only US news agencies that did. When the Arabs make the same kind of cartoons about Jews, you don't see Jews around the world doing this. Once again, its time time for so called "moderate" Muslims to police themselves. Their respective governments are not going to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacko Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Well my problem is that now those drawings are news, and not just some cartoon some people drew. Not showing them at this point in fear of Muslim reactions (I can't really imagine any other reason) is just cowardly and giving in to all the anger and terror(ism). I would expect that from my own country's socialist media, but it's odd that the US media is so on the defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caip Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 A Norwegian and Danish (Chilean and Swedish) embassy were destroyed, a German museum sort of thing was heavily damaged...and people get angry if the western world starts to hate muslims? C'mon! This way they are just begging to get screwed. I really hope the US (with european help) will strike Iran and smash the gouvernment there. If any head of state claims that Israel (or any other country) has no right to exist and denies the existence of the Holocaust, the gouvernment has no right to keep going. A country with terroristic ambitions should not be tolerated and thus the western countries should take measures against it. Iran should be stopped before they possess the atomic bomb. The sooner, the better! ps.: ugh...I am turning into a hardliner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacko Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 I know, we're both turning into hardliners Sascha... It was a hint when you voted Christian conservative in the election though . And hey you're right, let's overthrow that nut job Iran elected. Crooks and terrorists - and terrorist networkers - cannot run a country, and certainly not one with nuclear capability. Let's get in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 And hey you're right, let's overthrow that nut job Iran elected. Crooks and terrorists - and terrorist networkers - cannot run a country, and certainly not one with nuclear capability. Let's get in there! That has already been done. And it's the reason we have the mess we do today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caip Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 LINK LINK LINK LINKLINKLINKNLINLINLNILKN off topic, I know, but I just had to point that out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[FF5]Knix Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Danish Embassy in Lebanon now in flames as well. If it would put a secular head of Government into office for another 26 years, I would love another Shah . Goo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 LINK LINK LINK LINKLINKLINKNLINLINLNILKN On the internet it is possible to make so-called 'links' that will take you to more information on a certain subject. Anyway, the AEL has responded by placing a few antisemitic cartoons on their website, stating: After the lectures that Arabs and Muslims received from Europeans on Freedom of Speech and on Tolerance. And after that many European newspapers republished the Danish cartoons on the Prophet Mohammed. AEL decided to enter the cartoon business and to use our right to artistic expression. Just like the newspapers in Europe claim that they only want to defend the freedom of speech and do not desire to stigmatise Muslims,we also do stress that our cartoons are not meant as an offence to anybody and ought not to be taken as a statement against any group, community or historical fact.(Their website seems to have problems, wikipedia article here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacko Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Well. Personally I don't think the mass slaughter of millions of jews is funny even in cartoons, but if arabs/muslims find this funny then by all means. It's legal... It can and should be criticised, but no one has a right to meet them with violence or threats thereof. I dare claim you will not see Jews torching embassies or threatening to kidnap anyone. Which again highlights that these extremists are not the picked on kid with glasses, but the bully who shouts the loudest to get his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Agreed. I think the world is slowly opening their eyes to what this religion and it's fanatics are all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacko Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 http://www.humaneventsonline.com/images/islm_cartoon_9.jpg I know lots of ruckus has been made about the one with the bomb turban, but how about this one? If that is not valid, nail on the head religion criticism, then I don't know what is. After all, that's a pretty good summary of the aftermath and conflict until now! Which may be putting the cart in front of the horse, but I still think the reactions to the pictures are the exact reason why they needed publishment in the first place - and why it's so devastating that so many aren't showing them out of cowardice - because these guys need to know that western values don't even budge an inch for the sake of machine gun toting with the Koran in hand. And c'mon! That millions of muslims are offended? Since when has the "it's offensive to religious people" even been an argument in any western country? Upset Christians and Jews everywhere are told to suck it up and get over it. I'm sure I could find dozens of examples, but we all know it happens so I won't. This misguided leftist tolerance is infantalizing and a very lethal lenience indeed. Mur! This is really pissing me off! Oh but I found a good blog on Time about it: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...00.html?cnn=yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caip Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 This misguided leftist tolerance is infantalizing and a very lethal lenience indeed. huh? how is leftist tolerance "infantilizing"? Do you mean countries who don't want their newspapers to print the cartoons are infantilizing them (them = the newspapers)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacko Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 No, infantalizing to Muslims everywhere and the islamist nuts burning embassies. To suggest that they don't know what they're doing or that they are vulnerable and weak and couldn't handle the same kind of criticism as Christianity and Judaism, is treating a whole religion and all its followers like little children. However little children don't tote AK-47s and toss Molotov cocktails around. Little children usually also know which is the real offense; some critical drawings or embassy torchings, bomb scares and death threats. To my great horror, at least half of my country (and the world for that matter) seems to think and say that they are much the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{GD}Independent Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 in 1999 CNN.com reprinted a picture of the virgin mary covered in elephant dung. this year, they refuse to reprint the muhammed cartoons "out of respec for islam." huh see this post for interesting background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 IMHO, this is another wake up call for Europe. First they had the Madrid train Bombings, then they had the bus and subway bombings in England, now they have the embassies being burnt to the ground. Europe needs to unite and join the US in fighting these Islamic Fascists or they will continue to bully you around and continue to kill your friends and family. My advice is to be vocal about it with as many people as you can - there are many who likely feel this way, but are afraid of voicing their opinion. Learn from your own history - Europe didn't have the will/sack to stand up to Hitler when Nazi Fascism was peaking...don't make the same mistake. Now is the time for Europe to confront this deadly threat by any and all means. Whenever an act of Islamic terror has been committed (via violence or cyber space http://www.pcpro.co.uk/shopper/news/83314/...et-assault.html )you never hear an apology or anyone denouncing the act - if you are lucky you get a watered down "Islam is against all acts of terrorism" - That is bologna! Their lack of response indicates to me that they condone it. You also need to be cognizant of other countries trying to stir the hornets nest (Iran and Syria) http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=48716 And to our Danish allies, we support your efforts http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...4719.shtml?s=lh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surak Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 IMHO, this is another wake up call for Europe. First they had the Madrid train Bombings, then they had the bus and subway bombings in England, now they have the embassies being burnt to the ground. Europe needs to unite and join the US in fighting these Islamic Fascists or they will continue to bully you around and continue to kill your friends and family. Yeah sure, and if we invade all their countries im sure they are going to stop. Just like invading Iraq and Afghanistan stopped all the terrorism. My advice is to be vocal about it with as many people as you can - there are many who likely feel this way, but are afraid of voicing their opinion. Learn from your own history - Europe didn't have the will/sack to stand up to Hitler when Nazi Fascism was peaking...don't make the same mistake. Now is the time for Europe to confront this deadly threat by any and all means. What? Do you want another world war? Whenever an act of Islamic terror has been committed (via violence or cyber space http://www.pcpro.co.uk/shopper/news/83314/...et-assault.html )you never hear an apology or anyone denouncing the act - if you are lucky you get a watered down "Islam is against all acts of terrorism" - That is bologna! Their lack of response indicates to me that they condone it. I never hear an apology from all jews world wide every time Isreal attacks a refugee camp. And to our Danish allies, we support your efforts http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...4719.shtml?s=lh I hope they don't support yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 n 1999 CNN.com reprinted a picture of the virgin mary covered in elephant dung. this year, they refuse to reprint the muhammed cartoons "out of respec for islam." huhThe row about Ofili's Holy Virgin Mary was about government censorship and reproducing it was a statement against that. The cartoon issue is about provocation and escalation. They've decided not to take part in that. Free speech happened to be involved in both, but apart from that it's apples and oranges. I'm sure when things calm down, they'll gladly print them. Europe didn't have the will/sack to stand up to Hitler when Nazi Fascism was peaking. Godwinned! Anyway, Europe was fighting the nazis when the US was still supporting them. (by the way, whilst looking that up I found out that the International Jew was written by Henry Ford! Yowza!) you never hear an apology or anyone denouncing the act Just because Kool-Aid merchants Newsmax or Worldnetdaily don't tell you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen (self-fulfilling prophesy?) You can start reading here. (and from there you should end up here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXS Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the threadI was not trying to end the debate/thread...merely making a suggestion to learn from your own history. Your Godwinned claim is out of context. Nice try. You can't claim Godwinned just because someone brings up Nazi Fascism...I suggest you read a little further in your own link about the controversy of using Godwinned. Comparing two very similar types of fascism with very similar ideology is completely acceptable. Great job at missing my point and misdirecting the post. True, there are pockets where some condemn these acts, but I feel there are many more who do not. Surak, my ankle biting, yap dog friend, you go ahead and keep telling yourself that passivity is the answer while more innocent people are murdered. And yes, if it takes another world war (or rather world involvement) to stop Islamic Fascism, I am all for it. I'm entitled to my opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belladonna Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I heard on the radio today that the editor who ran those cartoons months ago did so as part of an drawing contest with the goal of bringing intolerance of Muslims to light. He wanted to help people and children understand more about the religion and the people so they wouldn't treat them with bias. Not all the cartoons were offensive, but that's all we hear about. So despite his good 'misguided' intention he is now fired from his job, his family is in protective custody because they're threatened constantly and the Muslim community is in an uproar. Also, the important imam in Denmark (whose name I could never remember in a million years) that got upset about the original cartoons back in September has been on a crusade to rile the Muslim people up since then. He's had the cartoons printed up and passed out to Muslims. Included are some offensive drawings that were never part of those printed in the paper. No one knows where these other drawings are from and he cannot verify where they are from. So why now? The timing seems suspicious to me. Is this a way to tell the Muslim people spread throughout the world that they have support in whatever they do? That it is okay to threaten, attack and kill? And how much will the European nations take before they say enough is enough? Turning the other cheek is admirable in many situations, but not when people are being killed... over a cartoon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surak Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Apparantly the American news services don't tell about the numerous imans trying to stop the protesters from burning the embassies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacko Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 The Godwin remark is unneccessary. The "let's just be friends" way Europe tried never worked with Hitler and I doubt it will work with Islam. Let's just hope we will wake up before the US has to bail us out yet again. Goo have you really looked at those cartoons? Do you know why they were even made? I have, and I do. I've read the text with the pictures and I've looked closely and honestly, they are both in form and in intent valid and serious religion criticisism. Not all of them are smashingly intelligent... It's a mix - but then why aren't they even printing the "nice" ones? Seriously: One brings up the status of women in Islam, another suggests a link between Islam and terrorism, while a few, interestingly, foresee the cartoon clash and the chaos that has come. Those drawings are not a mere provocation, although provocative, as criticism always is to someone who feels hit by it. As for the papers gladly printing them later, well what help is there in that? Now is when it's important that people see just what the heck thousands are burning flags for, and what millions feel hurt and angered by. Not next year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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