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HAMAS in Palestine


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If your definition of democracy is a limited one, only including a representative government elected directly by the people, then it's a democracy. If you also include all the other elements needed for a functioning democracy, like a seperate judicial system, independent press, a tradition of respect for human rights, etc. etc. then it's not. In my opinion, just having elections is not enough for a democracy.

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Word to that, Goo. Course I doubt there will ever be a perfect democracy as long as there are people around, but having elections is not the on/off switch of democracy.

 

I must say that it troubles me that Hamas was elected. Although we can always hope that they will live up to the responsibility and trust they've been given.

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Well being elected is a show of trust, no? Normally being elected into government brings responsibility with it...

 

A Palestine-related issue, a small group was burning Norwegian and Danish flags today over this incident:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/30...n.ap/index.html

 

I feel torn between my natural reaction of laughing and not giving a crap what these guys think (oh yes, the editor of the Norwegian magazine has received death threats and thousands of hate e-mails) - and the logical reaction of being pissed that fundamentalists are trampling my peace-loving, aid-providing, respectful and democratic country's symbol. Any thoughts on the appropriate level of concern in this case?

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Why should anyone be pissed if a bunch of jerks burns some flags? I really don't get the point there...I mean, it is a friggin flag after all, a piece of cloth. To hell with what they want to express through that, they'll see what they get out of it. And burning a norwegian flag obviously shows that they have no clue about global foreign policy :lol:

 

Regarding the hamas thing: it's a joke. They call it a democracy and a terrorist organization is ruling this "democratic country"? C'mon...they can't be serious.

And well, East Germany was a democratic country between 1949 and 1989/90, too :rolleyes:

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Why should anyone be pissed if a bunch of jerks burns some flags? I really don't get the point there...I mean, it is a friggin flag after all, a piece of cloth. To hell with what they want to express through that, they'll see what they get out of it. And burning a norwegian flag obviously shows that they have no clue about global foreign policy :lol:

 

Regarding the hamas thing: it's a joke. They call it a democracy and a terrorist organization is ruling this "democratic country"? C'mon...they can't be serious.

And well, East Germany was a democratic country between 1949 and 1989/90, too :rolleyes:

 

Well a cross is made out of pieces of wood, and people don't just shrug their shoulders when the KKK burns one of them. A Quran is writtin on pieces of paper, wrapped in leather binding, yet the Muslim's don't dig it too much when a couple of US soldiers burned that either. The point is not the actual object being desicrated, its what that object represents which causes the ire that Mari is talking about.

 

These people (I am not saying country as the Palestinians have never had a country) are not sane enough to self govern. No matter who is in power, the Israelis will never adhere to the the following item's which are in the charter of Hamas..

 

1) The right of return for all refugees from the '48 war

2) Jerusalem as the capital of "Palestine"

 

 

Not to mention the total destruction of Israel :P.

 

The only way to control the situation is to build the retaining wall around the borders of Israel. Have these walls incorporate Jerusalem, up to the Golan Heights, down through the Nagev desert and border the Gaza strip. Palestine would be made up of 2 bodies of land (just like Pakistan and Bangladesh *formerly East Pakistan* border India). If the Palestinians don't like it....tough Sh@t. Either take it or be chased into Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, and try and assimilate into that population.

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Well a cross is made out of pieces of wood, and people don't just shrug their shoulders when the KKK burns one of them. A Quran is writtin on pieces of paper, wrapped in leather binding, yet the Muslim's don't dig it too much when a couple of US soldiers burned that either. The point is not the actual object being desicrated, its what that object represents which causes the ire that Mari is talking about.

 

I know, I know...but I still don't care as people doing such stuff are dorks anyway. Ah I kinda don't get the fuss, although I can see why people are upset...I am weird :blink:

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LMAO, I guess "Habib's House of Flags" shipment from Oslo and Copenhagen was late, so the locals had to break out their crayons and draw their own.

 

IPB Image

 

And people are worried about the U.S. :rolleyes:

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Well it appears the cartoons are spreading - today they were printed a French and a German newspaper. Meanwhile bomb scares, hate mail and kidnapping threats are plentiful in Denmark.

 

C'mon! Norwegian papers DO NOT answer to religious dogma and sharia laws. How do these guys not get that? Still what amazes me the most is those of my countrymen who are upset with the 'lack of respect' in drawing Muhammad. Honestly. The lack of humour, self-criticism and tolerance of some muslims is their challenge and their problem to deal with. Why respect such disrespect and violence? I don't get it.

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Well in Norway, the church faces satire, criticism, irony and caricature drawings like this every now and then. I have never heard of flag burning, bomb threats or armed storming of any official buildings in relation to that. That said, I bet they wouldn't dig it. And I know there are also Christian whack jobs, but they are certainly fewer, and as far as I can tell the Christian communities are usually crispy clear in their rejection of fanaticism turned violent.

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Congrats to the Newspapers in Holland, France, and other European papers, for printing the cartoons, and showing solidarity against these friggen maniacs. Europe showing some sack! (looks out the window for flying pigs :P).

 

 

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Well it appears the cartoons are spreading - today they were printed a French and a German newspaper. Meanwhile bomb scares, hate mail and kidnapping threats are plentiful in Denmark.

 

C'mon! Norwegian papers DO NOT answer to religious dogma and sharia laws. How do these guys not get that? Still what amazes me the most is those of my countrymen who are upset with the 'lack of respect' in drawing Muhammad. Honestly. The lack of humour, self-criticism and tolerance of some muslims is their challenge and their problem to deal with. Why respect such disrespect and violence? I don't get it.

 

in my country (USA) Jesus is the only religious figure you can get away with making fun of. there's a cartoon on a popular channel now that features him puking all over the place for some reason. if they tried that with buddah, muhammed, or any other religion's sacred founder, they'd be hated and excoriated for it. but the liberals who run "entertainment" in this country hate christians, so it's ok to do whatever you want with Jesus.

 

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Independent' date='Feb 2 2006, 04:16 PM' post='29679']

in my country (USA) Jesus is the only religious figure you can get away with making fun of. there's a cartoon on a popular channel now that features him puking all over the place for some reason. if they tried that with buddah, muhammed, or any other religion's sacred founder, they'd be hated and excoriated for it. but the liberals who run "entertainment" in this country hate christians, so it's ok to do whatever you want with Jesus.

 

In the Netherlands you can get away with making fun of every major religon. I've seen several comedians making fun of them.

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Editorial correction....the paper is called "France Soir". My French eeees not good. Yeah Mari I read about the owner too. The French should boycot that paper....but they wont :P.

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the Palestinians have never had a country
You mean like those so-called 'Americans'? :P

 

Congrats to the Newspapers in Holland, France, and other European papers, for printing the cartoons
You forgot the most important one: in Jordan.

 

in my country (USA) Jesus is the only religious figure you can get away with making fun of. there's a cartoon on a popular channel now that features him puking all over the place for some reason. if they tried that with buddah, muhammed, or any other religion's sacred founder, they'd be hated and excoriated for it. but the liberals who run "entertainment" in this country hate christians, so it's ok to do whatever you want with Jesus.
No, the reason for that is that Christians are by far the most dominant religion in the US. It's always ok to make fun of those in power. However, generally the only ones for whom it's ok to make fun of minorities is they themselves. 'Als Marrokaan kom ik graag bij de mensen thuis' - Najib Amhali (sorry, for Dutch audiences only, doesn't really translate)
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Sonic Goo' date='Feb 3 2006, 03:09 PM' post='30014']

You mean like those so-called 'Americans'? :P

 

 

 

Don't get it.. :huh:

 

anyhow, here are the cartoons in question. Any fanatic asks....i got it from Fosxy :P

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e...ad_drawings.png

 

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Wow that is some cowardice type Sh@T there that is.

 

Unless level headed Muslims police their own people, I could care less about them too. Either clean yourself up and come sit at the table of civilized people of the world, or choke on our dust.

 

BTW Danish Embassy in Damascus just been set on fire.

 

Any Euro's want to keep defending the poor oppressed Muslim's vs, the big bad mean US/ Israelies, please let me know.

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Got the feeling this isn't about a few cartoons anymore, but that most muslims are getting sick of getting called terrorists. But really, attacking buildings isn't going to help them.

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