Seemann Posted January 29, 2006 Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) . Edited August 15, 2014 by Seemann Quote
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted January 29, 2006 Posted January 29, 2006 If your definition of democracy is a limited one, only including a representative government elected directly by the people, then it's a democracy. If you also include all the other elements needed for a functioning democracy, like a seperate judicial system, independent press, a tradition of respect for human rights, etc. etc. then it's not. In my opinion, just having elections is not enough for a democracy. Quote
Spacko Posted January 29, 2006 Posted January 29, 2006 Word to that, Goo. Course I doubt there will ever be a perfect democracy as long as there are people around, but having elections is not the on/off switch of democracy. I must say that it troubles me that Hamas was elected. Although we can always hope that they will live up to the responsibility and trust they've been given. Quote
Surak Posted January 29, 2006 Posted January 29, 2006 They have to if they want to keep getting financial support from the EU en US. Quote
Seemann Posted January 30, 2006 Author Posted January 30, 2006 (edited) . Edited August 15, 2014 by Seemann Quote
Spacko Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 Well being elected is a show of trust, no? Normally being elected into government brings responsibility with it... A Palestine-related issue, a small group was burning Norwegian and Danish flags today over this incident: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/30...n.ap/index.html I feel torn between my natural reaction of laughing and not giving a crap what these guys think (oh yes, the editor of the Norwegian magazine has received death threats and thousands of hate e-mails) - and the logical reaction of being pissed that fundamentalists are trampling my peace-loving, aid-providing, respectful and democratic country's symbol. Any thoughts on the appropriate level of concern in this case? Quote
Caip Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 Why should anyone be pissed if a bunch of jerks burns some flags? I really don't get the point there...I mean, it is a friggin flag after all, a piece of cloth. To hell with what they want to express through that, they'll see what they get out of it. And burning a norwegian flag obviously shows that they have no clue about global foreign policy Regarding the hamas thing: it's a joke. They call it a democracy and a terrorist organization is ruling this "democratic country"? C'mon...they can't be serious. And well, East Germany was a democratic country between 1949 and 1989/90, too Quote
[FF5]Knix Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 Why should anyone be pissed if a bunch of jerks burns some flags? I really don't get the point there...I mean, it is a friggin flag after all, a piece of cloth. To hell with what they want to express through that, they'll see what they get out of it. And burning a norwegian flag obviously shows that they have no clue about global foreign policy Regarding the hamas thing: it's a joke. They call it a democracy and a terrorist organization is ruling this "democratic country"? C'mon...they can't be serious. And well, East Germany was a democratic country between 1949 and 1989/90, too Well a cross is made out of pieces of wood, and people don't just shrug their shoulders when the KKK burns one of them. A Quran is writtin on pieces of paper, wrapped in leather binding, yet the Muslim's don't dig it too much when a couple of US soldiers burned that either. The point is not the actual object being desicrated, its what that object represents which causes the ire that Mari is talking about. These people (I am not saying country as the Palestinians have never had a country) are not sane enough to self govern. No matter who is in power, the Israelis will never adhere to the the following item's which are in the charter of Hamas.. 1) The right of return for all refugees from the '48 war 2) Jerusalem as the capital of "Palestine" Not to mention the total destruction of Israel . The only way to control the situation is to build the retaining wall around the borders of Israel. Have these walls incorporate Jerusalem, up to the Golan Heights, down through the Nagev desert and border the Gaza strip. Palestine would be made up of 2 bodies of land (just like Pakistan and Bangladesh *formerly East Pakistan* border India). If the Palestinians don't like it....tough Sh@t. Either take it or be chased into Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, and try and assimilate into that population. Quote
Caip Posted January 30, 2006 Posted January 30, 2006 Well a cross is made out of pieces of wood, and people don't just shrug their shoulders when the KKK burns one of them. A Quran is writtin on pieces of paper, wrapped in leather binding, yet the Muslim's don't dig it too much when a couple of US soldiers burned that either. The point is not the actual object being desicrated, its what that object represents which causes the ire that Mari is talking about. I know, I know...but I still don't care as people doing such stuff are dorks anyway. Ah I kinda don't get the fuss, although I can see why people are upset...I am weird Quote
[FF5]Knix Posted January 31, 2006 Posted January 31, 2006 LMAO, I guess "Habib's House of Flags" shipment from Oslo and Copenhagen was late, so the locals had to break out their crayons and draw their own. And people are worried about the U.S. Quote
Spacko Posted February 1, 2006 Posted February 1, 2006 Well it appears the cartoons are spreading - today they were printed a French and a German newspaper. Meanwhile bomb scares, hate mail and kidnapping threats are plentiful in Denmark. C'mon! Norwegian papers DO NOT answer to religious dogma and sharia laws. How do these guys not get that? Still what amazes me the most is those of my countrymen who are upset with the 'lack of respect' in drawing Muhammad. Honestly. The lack of humour, self-criticism and tolerance of some muslims is their challenge and their problem to deal with. Why respect such disrespect and violence? I don't get it. Quote
Surak Posted February 1, 2006 Posted February 1, 2006 Not that I like the way some of the muslims are reacting to the cartoon, but I wonder what some christians would do if the same happened to them. Quote
Spacko Posted February 1, 2006 Posted February 1, 2006 Well in Norway, the church faces satire, criticism, irony and caricature drawings like this every now and then. I have never heard of flag burning, bomb threats or armed storming of any official buildings in relation to that. That said, I bet they wouldn't dig it. And I know there are also Christian whack jobs, but they are certainly fewer, and as far as I can tell the Christian communities are usually crispy clear in their rejection of fanaticism turned violent. Quote
[FF5]Knix Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 Congrats to the Newspapers in Holland, France, and other European papers, for printing the cartoons, and showing solidarity against these friggen maniacs. Europe showing some sack! (looks out the window for flying pigs ). Quote
{GD}Independent Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 Well it appears the cartoons are spreading - today they were printed a French and a German newspaper. Meanwhile bomb scares, hate mail and kidnapping threats are plentiful in Denmark. C'mon! Norwegian papers DO NOT answer to religious dogma and sharia laws. How do these guys not get that? Still what amazes me the most is those of my countrymen who are upset with the 'lack of respect' in drawing Muhammad. Honestly. The lack of humour, self-criticism and tolerance of some muslims is their challenge and their problem to deal with. Why respect such disrespect and violence? I don't get it. in my country (USA) Jesus is the only religious figure you can get away with making fun of. there's a cartoon on a popular channel now that features him puking all over the place for some reason. if they tried that with buddah, muhammed, or any other religion's sacred founder, they'd be hated and excoriated for it. but the liberals who run "entertainment" in this country hate christians, so it's ok to do whatever you want with Jesus. Quote
Surak Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 Independent' date='Feb 2 2006, 04:16 PM' post='29679'] in my country (USA) Jesus is the only religious figure you can get away with making fun of. there's a cartoon on a popular channel now that features him puking all over the place for some reason. if they tried that with buddah, muhammed, or any other religion's sacred founder, they'd be hated and excoriated for it. but the liberals who run "entertainment" in this country hate christians, so it's ok to do whatever you want with Jesus. In the Netherlands you can get away with making fun of every major religon. I've seen several comedians making fun of them. Quote
[FF5]Knix Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 Bah The French Newspaper "Paris Sois" just fired its editor. I swear, if they don't squat to pee, nobody does. Quote
Spacko Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 Well the owner of the newspaper is and Egyptian muslim. That might have something to do with it. It is ridiculous, though. Quote
[FF5]Knix Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 Editorial correction....the paper is called "France Soir". My French eeees not good. Yeah Mari I read about the owner too. The French should boycot that paper....but they wont . Quote
[TNT] Sonic Goo Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 the Palestinians have never had a countryYou mean like those so-called 'Americans'? Congrats to the Newspapers in Holland, France, and other European papers, for printing the cartoonsYou forgot the most important one: in Jordan. in my country (USA) Jesus is the only religious figure you can get away with making fun of. there's a cartoon on a popular channel now that features him puking all over the place for some reason. if they tried that with buddah, muhammed, or any other religion's sacred founder, they'd be hated and excoriated for it. but the liberals who run "entertainment" in this country hate christians, so it's ok to do whatever you want with Jesus.No, the reason for that is that Christians are by far the most dominant religion in the US. It's always ok to make fun of those in power. However, generally the only ones for whom it's ok to make fun of minorities is they themselves. 'Als Marrokaan kom ik graag bij de mensen thuis' - Najib Amhali (sorry, for Dutch audiences only, doesn't really translate) Quote
[FF5]Knix Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Sonic Goo' date='Feb 3 2006, 03:09 PM' post='30014'] You mean like those so-called 'Americans'? Don't get it.. anyhow, here are the cartoons in question. Any fanatic asks....i got it from Fosxy http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e...ad_drawings.png Quote
Spacko Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Nopp, they are gone now. Don't believe this! Quote
[FF5]Knix Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Wow that is some cowardice type Sh@T there that is. Unless level headed Muslims police their own people, I could care less about them too. Either clean yourself up and come sit at the table of civilized people of the world, or choke on our dust. BTW Danish Embassy in Damascus just been set on fire. Any Euro's want to keep defending the poor oppressed Muslim's vs, the big bad mean US/ Israelies, please let me know. Quote
Surak Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Got the feeling this isn't about a few cartoons anymore, but that most muslims are getting sick of getting called terrorists. But really, attacking buildings isn't going to help them. Quote
[FF5]Knix Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Good way to be stopped being called terrorists...is by not doing this... Danish Embassy in Jordan (also home to Chilean and Swedish embassies). Quote
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